MAYOR NAGIN RADIO PHONE CALL

Discuss the recovery and aftermath of landfalling hurricanes. Please be sensitive to those that have been directly impacted. Political threads will be deleted without notice. This is the place to come together not divide.

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Brent
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#21 Postby Brent » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:56 am

Air Force Met wrote:In order to get around Posse Comitatus and the constitution, the governor of LA MUST invite and delegate. It is what she needed to do and she did not. The MAYOR...God bless his pee picking heart...failed the city by not getting the people out. Period. Now he's mad? He needs to point fingers at himself and his "team" of emergeny management officials. The NOLA police dept is in chaos and that is the Fed. gov't's fault?


Exactly... I was so frustrated that the mandatory evacuation wasn't issued until SUNDAY Morning. Conditions were already beginning to deteroiate a few hours later... :grr:
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Terry
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#22 Postby Terry » Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:58 am

May be I am wrong here, but it seems to me that with such loss of life and potential to lose more, that someone from the Administration, FEMA, or some other all-knowing individuals could have contacted the Mayor and the Gov and given them the precise language needed to request the military assistance so desperately needed.

None of this is acceptable - the lack of pre-planning, the numbers who didn't evacuate, the slowness and disorganization of the response. All of this after the massive $$$$ and effort put into Homeland Security.
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no flames, but some honest questions

#23 Postby camilletider » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:01 am

Granted that many of us are frustrated by the level of human suffering and are not asking the all the right questions in all the right ways but I have a few that I believe are reasonable:

Yes, I know Mr Bush can't step in until the Governor makes it official and asks for the National Guard and Federal Aid all that slop. I'm not sure of the exact date but I believe that was done a few days ago. Even if the Louisiana people drug their feet about it, the sheer scope of human suffering should have had the President and a few of his neccessary officials ready to act the minute they were called upon for at least the few following acts.

You are going to tell me that the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States of America could not have at least:

1) Had a few Blackhawk's loaded with water at the very least and perhaps even some food and a few basic medical supplies lifted to the islands of stranded people. The newspeople it seems to me, and I am no fan of the press, shamed them into finally delivering some water in this method to some of the massed islands people at various places on I-10. BUT NOT UNTIL THURSDAY? GIVE ME A BREAK!

2) Depending on when aid was requested, could not a few platoons of armed guardsmen placed around the Superdome? How about some Special Forces units to protect the hospitals when they came under fire? If one of our embassies came under attack we would get some kind of unit of this nature on site so fast it would make your head swim.

3) The failing pattern here is, that for some unknown reason, the government all the way up to its Commander in Chief is hiding behide some insane ideal that everything must be done all at once in huge lumps or not at all. All the self-congradulation, buck passing, excuse making, and general bs is not going to change the fact that just a few small common sense steps to preserve basic human needs of food, water, and just some presence on the ground to make a statement that order will be kept would have went a long way.

Go ahead. Tell me about this law and this barrier and whatever else was in the way but think about it. Over the course of this weekend and first few days could not just these few leaders have jumped through whatever hoops were neccessary? Just how much guidance in the form of discussion back and forth would it have taken. Surely the Governor and Mayor would have listened to whatever laundry list was required of them to receive the proper Federal aid quickly. If not it was obviously their fault but I wonder just how forthcoming these discussions were from the Federal side. If the Feds saw they were not trained and didn't know the drill, for the sake of the people in NO they should have bent over backwards to expedite the situation ANY WAY THEY COULD. What was lacking while many are suffering horrifically? Simple human will power and that is why many in America are furious with her leaders.

Another thing to consider:

_The first forecast that actually had NO directly in the bullseye did not come out until Friday night. No one, and I mean on one, could have evacuated that city in that amount of time. That as many got out as they did without a hundred wrecks and shootings means someone did something right. I lived in NO for six months and I never thought they could even come close to evacuation in less than five days.
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Brent
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#24 Postby Brent » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:10 am

Those hundreds of buses... look where they are:

Image

:roll:

That's in New Orleans in case you didn't know...

The Mayor needs to go because of this mess.
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#25 Postby Air Force Met » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:11 am

Persepone wrote: ...Having said that, it is pretty obvious that neither the Mayor nor the Governor or their support staff knew/know how to do this--and what I keep hearing is that they are pleading for help but not using the specific words or specific procedures that, in many cases, would result in the help....

I think we are all disgusted by the attitude that stuff can't happen until the right words are said, the right forms filled out, the right request made by the right person, etc. This is NOT how we think it should work.


I agree. The mayor and the governor did know though...we exercised it last year...so it is by and large a failure to do the first part of the plan...which was get as many out as possible as soon as possible.

As far as the second part of the post above...I agree as well...but I think we have LAWYERS to blame for that. There are a lot of things in this society that make no sense...but because of legalities...we have no choice.
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#26 Postby Air Force Met » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:13 am

Terry wrote:May be I am wrong here, but it seems to me that with such loss of life and potential to lose more, that someone from the Administration, FEMA, or some other all-knowing individuals could have contacted the Mayor and the Gov and given them the precise language needed to request the military assistance so desperately needed.

None of this is acceptable - the lack of pre-planning, the numbers who didn't evacuate, the slowness and disorganization of the response. All of this after the massive $$$$ and effort put into Homeland Security.


They know the language...we exercised a Cat 5 coming into NOLA last year...worst case scenario. The failure was to do the first part of that pre-determiend exercised plan...to get early evacs and get out as many as possible. That failure is placed directly on the Mayor..Governor...and citizens who did not leave.
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#27 Postby Air Force Met » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:14 am

Brent wrote:Those hundreds of buses... look where they are:

Image

:roll:

That's in New Orleans in case you didn't know...

The Mayor needs to go because of this mess.


Yeah...where are the buses Mr. Mayor...they are under water because YOU did not use them to get people out in the first place.
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#28 Postby RichG » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:14 am

Brent
Thanks for that picture it says it all. They should have been filled with people on saturday and sunday with the poor folks headed out of town!
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#29 Postby Air Force Met » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:16 am

RichG wrote:Brent
Thanks for that picture it says it all. They should have been filled with people on saturday and sunday with the poor folks headed out of town!


Exactly. If that had happened...and if people would have left...would we be looking for someone to blame now?

The obvious answer is no. My daddy used to say "you made you bed...now you have to lay in it..."
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#30 Postby Praxus » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:17 am

Granted the governor needed to ask for federal intervention. But couldn't Bush, as leader of the country, upon seeing how the situation was out
of control early this week..have called the governor and very strongly
encouraged her to seek such intervention ?

I agree with a lot of what air force met says; but I think saying no blame can be laid at the federal level isn't totally right either.
Last edited by Praxus on Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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#31 Postby RichG » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:21 am

Praxus look at the above picture, that is what I call simplistic. As airforce met said, if the people aren't there the secondary tragedy would have been greatly mitigated. I think that picture will be in history books.
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#32 Postby schmita » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:24 am

Praxus wrote:Granted the governor needed to ask for federal intervention. But couldn't Bush, as leader of the country, upon seeing how the situation was out
of control early this week..have called the governor and very strongly
encouraged her to seek such intervention ?

I agree with a lot of what air force met says; but I think saying no blame can be laid at the federal level is overly simpistic.


How do you know this didn't happen? It's the Governor's decision to make.
Jeez, just beating a dead horse here. This is not the Federal Government's fault, as shown by Brent's excellent photo.
Why are the private hospital's evacuated but the City hospitals crying for help? Why didn't the Mayor's office meet with the hospital administrators?
Hello?
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#33 Postby Air Force Met » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:28 am

Praxus wrote:Granted the governor needed to ask for federal intervention. But couldn't Bush, as leader of the country, upon seeing how the situation was out
of control early this week..have called the governor and very strongly
encouraged her to seek such intervention ?

I agree with a lot of what air force met says; but I think saying no blame can be laid at the federal level isn't totally right either.


It did happen...it happened when Bush declared a state of emergency on Sunday. It happened when the plan was devised a year ago.

It's typical of this country...GOD FORBID we hold anyone accountable for their own actions that placed them in harms way. It's certainly got to be a failure of the Government for you (not you ...but you know) not getting yourself out of harms way...certainly can't be YOUR fault. We don't do that anymore...we just seek someone else to blame.

...And I am sure it is someone else's fault that people are shooting at the rescuers...it certainly isn't the thugs faults...it's a failure of the government to support us.

It is making me sick what is happening to this country when it is always someone else's fauly. If you are on top of your roof...and you have two strong legs and could have left but chose NOT to...then it isn't my fault you are stuck there.
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#34 Postby ncbird » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:37 am

It is making me sick what is happening to this country when it is always someone else's fauly. If you are on top of your roof...and you have two strong legs and could have left but chose NOT to...then it isn't my fault you are stuck there.


AMEN.... I know I am being sarcastic... but this is sooooooo true. When we have had tropical systems head this way, I watch the weather and start to pack and get ready. I check on my neighbor who is disabled and make sure his family members are there to help him. Then if it looks like its comming ... I'm outta here. I don't even wait for the officials. Its my life... my responsibility for my own safety.

Those who can't get out should be helped... but those who are able, must take some kind of responsibility for themselfs.
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#35 Postby Brent » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:04 am

RichG wrote:Brent
Thanks for that picture it says it all. They should have been filled with people on saturday and sunday with the poor folks headed out of town!


THANK YOU!!!

People would have had a free ride out of the city and we wouldn't have this disaster and a half we have now. There would have been no excuse for people staying then...
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Brent
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#36 Postby Brent » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:06 am

Air Force Met wrote:It is making me sick what is happening to this country when it is always someone else's fauly. If you are on top of your roof...and you have two strong legs and could have left but chose NOT to...then it isn't my fault you are stuck there.


I agree with that as well... Today is the least amount of TV coverage I've watched because frankly, I'm sick and tired out of it. I'm getting out of the house for a while tomorrow and it can't come soon enough!
Last edited by Brent on Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Brent
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#37 Postby Brent » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:11 am

RichG wrote: I think that picture will be in history books.


It should be... but sadly, I haven't seen it on the news yet.
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#38 Postby gratefulnole » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:21 am

I aked this question on another thread but didn't see an answer:

I have a question about NO. Is New Orleans gov't and the Parish of Orleans gov't one and the same? In the area of New Orleans there is the parishes of Orleans, St. Bernard, Jefferson, St. Charles and the northern tip of Plaquemines. I am asking because some are partially blaming the Mayor of New Orleans when there are all those different parishes and other cities such as Metairie, Kenner, Gretna and Chalmette in the immediate area which are all affected. It seems to me then it would be much more a state of Louisiana situation than a city of New Orleans situation. Is it that the media keeps saying New Orleans because it is the urban center and tourist destination when in actuality it is a whole host of different local gov'ts involved?

For instance here in Tallahassee the city gov't doesn't run the schools, the county does. I am just trying to figure out how much of the area the Mayor is actually the top dog.
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#39 Postby FloridaHawk82 » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:24 am

I agree, the excellent photo of the busses is potentially very telling.

I feel so strongly that I took the liberty of emailing the photo and a summary of some of AirForceMets comments regarding the lack of executing the plans to every email address I could find on Fox News's website.

This is not the time, but somewhere down the road, this angle of the story needs to be told and addressed.

If every school bus and city bus in New Orleans had been used from Friday through Sunday, they could have made countless round-trips to "more safe" areas like Baton Rouge, Dallas, Houston, etc.

AirForceMet, I have one question. As part of the disaster plan and exercise, was there planning for the tens of thousands of people who had no transportation, financial means, or physical ability to evacuate? I can't imagine that NOBODY would have thought of the school and city busses to be used in a MANDATORY evacuation?
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#40 Postby oneness » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:48 am

If all the legality and constitutional paperwork is killing people so utterly stupidly, then here's a poorly thought through immediate suggestion.

1. Take out of it's hermetically sealed glass case
2. Thoroughly wipe your butt with it
3. Flush!
4. Go save the people stupid!

At the moment it seems to be the whipping-boy or political fig-leaf for people dieing en-masse.

5. Write an intelligent constitutional process to avoid this circus recurring.

'Problem' solved.
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