insurance companies

[floridahurricaneguy]

I thought I herd some big companies were pulling out of florida? Are any or is this just a rumor?

Matt

[artist]

yep -ours is, 2 weeks ago they let us know we will not be renewed as they are pulling out. Safeco is my co.

[Zackiedawg]

It isn't much better if they are staying. After 2004's storms, rates rose between 20-40%, plus most of the companies amended their contracts by eliminating or reducing the coverage for many types of damage. Essentially, your existing policy limits were lowered, certain parts of your home or property were excluded from coverage, new regulations were introduced making it harder to make a claim, AND your rates jumped for this new, worse coverage.

We can expect much the same this round...anything they haven't figured out how to exclude they will probably try to exclude this time around. And rates will jump another huge percentage.

After Andrew, Allstate pulled out of areas of Florida (including ours in Boca Raton) refusing to cover homes within proximity of the coast and of a certain loss value. State Farm stuck around, but at higher rates, so that's where we went. After last year, State Farm stayed, but with all new amendments to the coverage and a higher rate. Fortunately, we didn't suffer damage after Frances to any of our property...and only had to clear downed branches and trees.

But in Wilma, we suffered some expensive damage, all of which we have discovered by reviewing our 'new' policy is not covered. Our neighbor's banyan tree fell into our yard, taking out a fence, a built-in outdoor grill, two light poles, cracking dozens of pool tiles and bricks, and landing squarely in our pool...which after not being able to get it removed for 7 days completely destroyed the diamondbrite coating. The other half of our wooden fence was torn down by the storm, and a huge falling cactus in our front yard took out our front entry light pole, and ripped up sprinkler lines. Our tally seems to be running about $15,000 or so...but with a $17,000 deductible, and our policy excluding fences, pools, light poles, or anything else that was damaged...obviously making a claim was pointless.

Now we get to face another big increase after the Wilma claims are sorted...and who knows what other regulations to be introduced excluding other types of damage - maybe roof tiles will be excluded this time? Maybe screen enclosures?

I hate insurance! And I speak from experience...I'm an insurance agent.

[artist]

won't your neighbors policy cover you for the damage caused by their falling tree?

[Zackiedawg]

Apparently not. Our neighbor has been very kind about it...but unfortunately after repeated explanations to the insurance company that it was wholly his tree, they told him (and our company agreed) that after a storm, whatever is on your property is your to deal with...and since his tree was now on OUR property, we were responsible and his insurance refused to pay the claim.

The neighbor paid the cost to cut up and remove the tree...about $4,500...which according to the insurance companies he was not obligated to do. But I'm left repairing my deck and pool.

My neighbor on the other side has paid $13,000 to cut up and remove 12 trees from his backyard...and after piling up the debris in front of the house to be picked up by the city or community trucks, he was told by the community association that they will not include his debris in the pick up with the other debris...since it was from his backyard and is apparently his responsibility. So he's looking at several thousand more now to remove his own debris...which is the remnants of 12 ficus trees which were 30-40 feet tall!

I'm trying not to complain too loudly...I still have an intact house and family and friends are all unharmed. In light of what others are going through all over the south...my situation isn't all that bad. Just expensive!

[MGC]

$4,500 to remove a tree? Seems quite excessive to me. I scoffed at paying $850 to have one cut up and removed here. Is your deductible a percentage of the insured value as is the case in Mississippi?....MGC

[gtalum]

yep -ours is, 2 weeks ago they let us know we will not be renewed as they are pulling out. Safeco is my co.

Is that just in your region? I have Safeco and have not received any such notification. Fortunately, my policy is valid until next June, so I'll have time to shop if necessary.

[Zackiedawg]

$4,500 to remove a tree? Seems quite excessive to me. I scoffed at paying $850 to have one cut up and removed here. Is your deductible a percentage of the insured value as is the case in Mississippi?....MGC

Just about everything around our town is excessive! Actually, we've had trees removed before on our property after Frances last year, and depending on the size and type of tree we've had costs ranging from $500 for a 30-foot black olive, $300 for an orange tree, and $1200 for a large 40-foot ficus.

The neighbor's tree was a 30+ year-old Banyan, with 4 or 5 primary trunks, a 20-foot circumference root ball, and a branch bundle probably 60-65 feet tall by 60-70 feet wide at the girth. It was a very large tree. It also had burst through our fence, dropped onto our built-in BBQ console, and dropped into our swimming pool (covering about 90%). The labor of cutting into the huge trunks, bulldozing around the BBQ console and swimming pool, and the manual labor of retrieving the debris and cut branches from the pool, was probably where the costs came from. The root ball was estimated at 3 tons, and couldn't even be removed from the yard without a crane...so they bulldozed it upright, and the stump still remains. It took a crew of men three days to clear the yard.

Regarding deductibles...yes, in our area the deductible is 2% percent of insurable value.

[artist]

gtalum - the letter said they were pulling out of Florida. We renew in Feb. so guess they gave us 2 months notice.

[wayoutfront]

Apparently not. Our neighbor has been very kind about it...but unfortunately after repeated explanations to the insurance company that it was wholly his tree, they told him (and our company agreed) that after a storm, whatever is on your property is your to deal with...and since his tree was now on OUR property, we were responsible and his insurance refused to pay the claim.

The neighbor paid the cost to cut up and remove the tree...about $4,500...which according to the insurance companies he was not obligated to do. But I'm left repairing my deck and pool.

My neighbor on the other side has paid $13,000 to cut up and remove 12 trees from his backyard...and after piling up the debris in front of the house to be picked up by the city or community trucks, he was told by the community association that they will not include his debris in the pick up with the other debris...since it was from his backyard and is apparently his responsibility. So he's looking at several thousand more now to remove his own debris...which is the remnants of 12 ficus trees which were 30-40 feet tall!

I'm trying not to complain too loudly...I still have an intact house and family and friends are all unharmed. In light of what others are going through all over the south...my situation isn't all that bad. Just expensive!

The property line is the dividing line on repsonsibility of trees that fall


If your tree falls across the line that portion on your yard is your responsibility, that portion on his is his responsibility.

[wayoutfront]

It isn't much better if they are staying. After 2004's storms, rates rose between 20-40%, plus most of the companies amended their contracts by eliminating or reducing the coverage for many types of damage. Essentially, your existing policy limits were lowered, certain parts of your home or property were excluded from coverage, new regulations were introduced making it harder to make a claim, AND your rates jumped for this new, worse coverage.

We can expect much the same this round...anything they haven't figured out how to exclude they will probably try to exclude this time around. And rates will jump another huge percentage.

After Andrew, Allstate pulled out of areas of Florida (including ours in Boca Raton) refusing to cover homes within proximity of the coast and of a certain loss value. State Farm stuck around, but at higher rates, so that's where we went. After last year, State Farm stayed, but with all new amendments to the coverage and a higher rate. Fortunately, we didn't suffer damage after Frances to any of our property...and only had to clear downed branches and trees.

But in Wilma, we suffered some expensive damage, all of which we have discovered by reviewing our 'new' policy is not covered. Our neighbor's banyan tree fell into our yard, taking out a fence, a built-in outdoor grill, two light poles, cracking dozens of pool tiles and bricks, and landing squarely in our pool...which after not being able to get it removed for 7 days completely destroyed the diamondbrite coating. The other half of our wooden fence was torn down by the storm, and a huge falling cactus in our front yard took out our front entry light pole, and ripped up sprinkler lines. Our tally seems to be running about $15,000 or so...but with a $17,000 deductible, and our policy excluding fences, pools, light poles, or anything else that was damaged...obviously making a claim was pointless.

Now we get to face another big increase after the Wilma claims are sorted...and who knows what other regulations to be introduced excluding other types of damage - maybe roof tiles will be excluded this time? Maybe screen enclosures?

I hate insurance! And I speak from experience...I'm an insurance agent.

why don't you tell them why your stuff is not covered, your an agent???

and what policy excludes APS coverages? as an adjuster , even an old fire policy allows 10% of the dwelling limit. and citizens wind only policy doesn't exclude APS coverages.. heck it screwed up and actually pays fences at RCV

Me thinks you are spreading BOGUS INFO

[HurriCat]

After Charley, our back yard was covered - literally - with the shingles off of the back neighbor's roof. It took a LOT of work to pick up all of that stuff. They conveniently never showed their faces. I found some of their property in our yard and put it back on their side. The stuff disappeared, but they never said "boo".

Over at my mom's house, the back neighbor's HUGE china-berry tree came down across the chain-link fencing. I'd say that over ninety percent of this monster was all over my mom's yard. The local news made sure to keep blabbing that "what's on your property is your responsibility", and so my brother, his wife and myself spent weeks and weeks in that humidity. The neighbors never came out when we were out there. We cut the large trunk off right even with the crushed fencing (theirs). A year later, they haven't removed the remaining trunk or repaired the fence.

See, there's the "law" and there is what's called being good neighbors.

Down here - looks like a lot of neighbors are you-know-whats.

[Zackiedawg]

why don't you tell them why your stuff is not covered, your an agent???

and what policy excludes APS coverages? as an adjuster , even an old fire policy allows 10% of the dwelling limit. and citizens wind only policy doesn't exclude APS coverages.. heck it screwed up and actually pays fences at RCV

Me thinks you are spreading BOGUS INFO

Gee...I wish I knew why my stuff is not covered. But being a life and health insurance agent for 11 years, I know little about property and casualty insurance which is a completely different market than the one I'm in.

Not knowing exactly what APS is, I am assuming it has something to do with coverage for non-dwelling property. You ask what policy excludes it? Well, if you are referring to my pool, my BBQ console, or my fence, that would be State Farm, Boca Raton office.

State Farm, and all other forms of insurance I have spoken to have all denied coverage of my fence. Apparently, there is a rule stating that only fences or structures attached to the dwelling can be considered covered...because my fence straddles my backyard, it is apparently not covered. Whatever RCV is, I would love to get reimbursed for it on my fence...but so far, no such luck.

As for the tree...what the previous poster said is what we were told as well - the property line is the deciding factor...because the root ball and roughly 5 feet of trunk were on our neighbor's side, he was responsible only for that portion, despite the fact that it was entirely his tree in his yard. We were responsible for 90% of the tree, mainly the trunk and canopy, which is what was in our yard and caused all the damage. Not to mention the additional damage to our yard caused by the bulldozers and tractors which had to demolish our lawn to get access to the tree.

So his tree falls in our yard, neither his nor our insurance will cover it, he merely has a stump to upright on his property with no other damage, and we lose a fence, BBQ console, swimming pool, and lawn, and have to pay for the tree removal and all of our repairs.

As the pool company has just completed their repairs and the pool is restored, the fence has been replaced but is as yet unpainted, the tree is in 8-foot tall piles lining my front yard, and the BBQ grill has been torn down...I would love to hear any insight you can offer as to how I can get the insurance company to pay for any of this at all...since you say they should be responsible for some portion of it. Of course, if the $17,500 deductible becomes the issue...meaning they will cover some of this, but it will fall under the primary deductible, then I can't make a claim anyway, because total repairs will likely fall around $15,000. But if any of this is reimbursable through separate smaller deductibles or other coverage riders, please enlighten me.

Believe me, I've nothing to gain spreading 'bogus information'...I would very much like to have some of this covered. But from what State Farm is telling me (having been covered with them for over 10 years now), they are not responsible for any of the damage in my backyard, and my policy offers no coverage for the pool.

If you'd like, I'll gladly e-mail you my agent's name, policy number, or even a scan of my actual policy, including the January 2005 amendment notifications received after last year's hurricane Frances, which seems to have lots of fancy language in it basically stating the numerous things they will no longer cover, while notifying us of the hefty rate increase (we got a similar letter from Allstate after Andrew...just before they decided we were in a zone which they would no longer cover...driving us to State Farm in the first place). If you can prove me wrong, please do. I've merely repeated what I've been told from my insurance company, and from the fact that I am receiving no check of any amount at all to reimburse me for losses. If you prove me wrong, that means my insurance company is wrong, and I can get some money back...so I'm more than happy to be wrong.

[Zackiedawg]

In case this helps show the layout a little...

Here's the backyard before the storm...you can see the big banyan towering in the background, and you can see the BBQ console. The brick surrounding the pool, and the white tiles around it, were cracked or broken when the tree fell on it, the pole lighting was crushed, and the BBQ console was partially collapsed:



Here's the tree sitting in the pool:



Here's the tree coming through the fence:



I've got photos from after the removal of the tree too, but haven't uploaded them yet.[/img]

[HurryKane]

Zackiedawg, for what it's worth: friends told me after Katrina that neighbor's trees had fallen onto my house, fence, and deck. So I went to a SF agent in the city I evacuated to, to discuss it. He told me that unless the trees had been proven as a prior threat, my insurance had to pay for their removal and any damages incurred. However, if any of the remaining neighbor trees proved a threat (three did), then if I documented the threat and formally asked the neighbor to remove them, and if the neighbor refused and they later fell, then the neighbor's (tree-owner) insurance would have to cover any damages.

A couple of months later, my next-door neighbor who was also being threatened by these trees spoke with his insurance agent who examined them and told him the same thing, that if they fell now, it would be the tree-owner's expense.

Anyway, we worked out a deal with the guy who owned the trees to get them cut and removed. Sorry to see your damage, you had a lovely back yard. Good luck to you as you get it back in shape.

[Zackiedawg]

Thank you hurrycane. My insurance company did ask about whether the tree was a 'nuisance' tree or not. Of course, I thought it was a nuisance, but had never formally documented this with the neighbor.

Now that I know this is the process, and since this Banyan has been uprighted again (it is only 15-feet tall, and all trunk, since we cut off the canopy, but the neighbor decided against the cost to remove the root ball and just had the bulldozer push it back upright into its hole), we have officially notified him that we consider the tree to be a hazard. I don't think he's removing it, but this at least will satisfy our insurance company if the tree returns to our yard next year!

As I said...he isn't a bad neighbor. He was willing even to work out a deal on the tree removal despite not being legally responsible for it. But because the tree may regrow and still present the same hazard, we don't want to end up in the same situation again. Splitting the cost of the tree removal isn't so bad...but spending 5-figures to repair the pool and deck is not so fun.

Thanks for the compliment on the yard...it is getting back to normal. The pool is repaired and the fence is all repaired but still unpainted. Still no lighting out there, as there is a bit of a waiting list for electrical work. The grill is gone...still not sure if I'm going to replace it. And we can see a little more of our neighbors and the street behind us than we used to (and they can see into the yard too), so the privacy is not what it used to be. But as far as the house goes, we suffered no dwelling damage, and lost no other property or vehicle. Living in a hurricane-impacted area, I feel pretty lucky being able to say that considering the results of the past 14 months!