Supertyphoon Tip

[Audrey2Katrina]

A discussion in another thread got me interested into this unbelievable monster. 190 mph winds... and a size roughly more than twice that of Katrina. Look at the size of this thing compared to the United States!



Now THAT was a monster. Fortunately it weakened before making it to any heavily populated areas, but nonetheless it still holds several records for tropical cyclones, most notably: sheer size, and barometric pressure: 870 mb.

But given that storms ENORMOUS size, I wonder what the wind gradient must have been, and/or whether those windspeeds could have been overestimated given such a HUGE windfield. Comments?

A2K

[MiamiensisWx]

Does anyone have any rare or unseen satellite images of Tip at it's peak intensity or another point in it's life?

[weatherwoman132]

when was that?

[Audrey2Katrina]

I have found this image



With this tagline under it:

Ranks number 1 as the most intense tropical cyclone on record. Tip was located in the northwest Pacific Ocean, which on October 12, 1979 had winds gusting as high as 190 mph (306 km/h) and a central pressure of 870 mb (25.69"Hg). The size of the circulation around Typhoon Tip was approximately 1350 miles (2174 km) across. If placed over the continental U.S., it would almost cover the western half of the country.


A2K

[MiamiensisWx]

I've seen that one before. Are there any others that have been rarely seen?

[JonathanBelles]

it doesnt look too organized

[James]

I don't think that Tip is at his peak there, there's another image that shows him perfectly organised.

[whereverwx]

for more information....
http://vos.noaa.gov/MWL/aug1998.pdf

[Audrey2Katrina]

I've seen a few other sat images; but they all pretty much look like this one.

A2K

[Audrey2Katrina]

for more information....
http://vos.noaa.gov/MWL/aug1998.pdf

Yup, that's much better organized; the pic on the 14th was when he started losing some of the steam.

A2K

[f5]

Tip has a giant exhaust pipe(outflow)

[Audrey2Katrina]

From the report:

"A hurricane this size in the Gulf of
Mexico would cover everything
from Guatemala to Kentucky, and
Mexico City to the Bahamas!"

Unbelievable isn't it?

A2K

[Audrey2Katrina]

Yet another quote to ponder:

"If Hurricane
Andrew of 1992 had a similar
wind structure, its swath of
destruction would have enveloped
most of southern Florida from the
Keys northward to West Palm
Beach!"

I think Miami would've been in far worse condition than New Orleans is now!

A2K

[wxman57]

That overlay of Tip on the US may be misleading, as I believe the size represents the extent of cirrus outflow rather than TS-force winds. Take a look at the image above that shows Yap and Koror and a 300nm scale. From that satellite image, it looks like TS force winds may have extended between 200-250nm north of the center and a bit less to the south. That's big, but not as big as that image over the U.S. map. It would be like a hurricane with TS force wind from the LA coast to the northern Yucatan Peninsula. Hurricanes of that size (or nearly that size) have been observed in the Atlantic Basin - Gilbert, Carla, Allen are the top 3.

In any case, it was a large supertyphoon, but it may not have been the most intense ever. Problem is, since Tip was measured by recon, there have been at least 3 other supertyphones that appeared to be stronger using the objective Dvorak technique -- Yuri, Gay, and Angela. But recon had been discontinued, so there were no direct measurements of central pressure or winds. See this abstract from the AMS tropical conference in Miami of May 2004:

http://ams.confex.com/ams/26HURR/techpr ... _75465.htm

[f5]

Yet another quote to ponder:

"If Hurricane
Andrew of 1992 had a similar
wind structure, its swath of
destruction would have enveloped
most of southern Florida from the
Keys northward to West Palm
Beach!"

I think Miami would've been in far worse condition than New Orleans is now!

A2K

if that were to happen your looking a a trillion dollars in damage which would make it the 2nd or 3rd costliest behind Houston and NYC

[wxman57]

Hmm, I read the article posted above ( http://vos.noaa.gov/MWL/aug1998.pdf ), and I see some discrepencies. First of all, they list TS force winds as 30 kts, which is incorrect. The 50kt wind radius is given as out to 150nm, which is large, but hurricanes like Carla, Gilbert, and Allen have had 50kt wind radii of over 100 nm. I just finished a research project on wind radii, but I don't have the results on this PC. I'll check tomorrow to see Gilbert's, Carla's, and Allen's 50kt wind radii.

What I see could be another error is in the 600nm RADIUS of TS-force (30kt) winds. I think the author may have meant diameter, not radius. If you look at the image and compare it to the 300nm distance scale, then 600nm would take the TS force winds well beyond any feeder bands. That would seem unlikely.

[Audrey2Katrina]

Hmm, I read the article posted above ( http://vos.noaa.gov/MWL/aug1998.pdf ), and I see some discrepencies. First of all, they list TS force winds as 30 kts, which is incorrect. The 50kt wind radius is given as out to 150nm, which is large, but hurricanes like Carla, Gilbert, and Allen have had 50kt wind radii of over 100 nm. I just finished a research project on wind radii, but I don't have the results on this PC. I'll check tomorrow to see Gilbert's, Carla's, and Allen's 50kt wind radii.

What I see could be another error is in the 600nm RADIUS of TS-force (30kt) winds. I think the author may have meant diameter, not radius. If you look at the image and compare it to the 300nm distance scale, then 600nm would take the TS force winds well beyond any feeder bands. That would seem unlikely.

I dunno. 30KT is 34.6 mph, and that's approximately 35. I believe WE register a TS at speeds of 39 but perhaps they were using the measure of "gale" winds which began around the 35 mph measured. Every article I've read on Tip shows it with a TS diameter well over 1,000 miles across, including the one at NOAA. Here is a navy report in powerpoint you can download and read, it has a lot more data on the storm including some graphs of the data.

http://www.npmoc.navy.mil/jtwc/pubref/References/?M=A

You'll have to scroll down to the one on SupertyphoontTip.ppt. It's really a slide show of nothing but documentation of the storm, but it's an interesting read. All that said, some of the figures may well be inflated; but I'd think not to the degree that it's less than 1,000 miles which is still significantly bigger than anything I've ever heard of.

A2K

[Jim Cantore]

What kind of conditions did Tip have? they must have been 100% perfect

[Audrey2Katrina]

What I see could be another error is in the 600nm RADIUS of TS-force (30kt) winds. I think the author may have meant diameter, not radius. If you look at the image and compare it to the 300nm distance scale, then 600nm would take the TS force winds well beyond any feeder bands. That would seem unlikely.

Have to agree with you on that point... using that particular map and the scale they show, although we do not see the full eastern side of the typhoon, it still seems unlikely it would be twice as wide as what is shown... ahh well, another meteorological enigma

A2K

[Audrey2Katrina]

What kind of conditions did Tip have? they must have been 100% perfect

True, I'd have liked to see the MPI on that thing. Although in reading the report, it DOES suggest exactly that--perfect conditions, once it hit that huge expansion.

A2K