How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

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How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic Hurrucane Season get?

Poll ended at Mon Sep 30, 2024 2:23 pm

55.1 (today's ACE; no TS forms after Ernesto)
3
8%
55.1 - 73 (below average)
3
8%
73 - 96.7 (average, low-end)
4
11%
96.7 - 126.1 (average, high-end)
4
11%
126.1 - 159.6 (above average)
12
33%
159.6 - 180 (hyperactive / extremely active)
8
22%
180 - 200
0
No votes
200 - 230
2
6%
230+ (CSU's forecast)
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 36

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Teban54
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How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#1 Postby Teban54 » Mon Sep 02, 2024 1:57 pm

I'm seeing wildly different expectations about this from different people, so here's my attempt at creating a place where people can clarify just exactly what they meant.

Options:
  • 55.1 (today's ACE; no TS forms after Ernesto)
  • 55.1 - 73 (below average)
  • 73 - 96.7 (average, low-end)
  • 96.7 - 126.1 (average, high-end)
  • 126.1 - 159.6 (above average)
  • 159.6 - 180 (hyperactive / extremely active)
  • 180 - 200
  • 200 - 230
  • 230+ (CSU's forecast)

Most cutoffs are from NOAA's definitions. 96.7 is the median of 1951-2020; 73 and 126.1 are the 33rd and 67th percentiles respectively, which NOAA uses to define below-average, near-average and above-average seasons.159.6 is 165% of the median, which NOAA used as the threshold for "extremely active" seasons.

(Note that the 1991-2020 period, which is often used for climo, is significantly more active: the median ACE is 125.5. NOAA explained in the page why they didn't use it for the seasonal activity cutoffs.)

I also thought about doing a poll on NS/H/MH counts, but that would be too complicated due to having 3 different metrics.

Mods, can you make this a poll?
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#2 Postby cycloneye » Mon Sep 02, 2024 2:24 pm

Made the poll that will allow the members to change their vote before it closes on September 30 at 3:23 PM EDT.
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#3 Postby Hurricane2022 » Mon Sep 02, 2024 3:05 pm

Voted for hyperactive/ extremely active. I think that this season still has a decent shot of reaching 159+ ACE. Now i'm forecasting 170 Ace pts, way down from my final prediction of 250 points from the 2024 numbers poll in early April. But I still can see this season reaching just 145 - 150 pts when the season ends.
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#4 Postby aspen » Mon Sep 02, 2024 3:39 pm

Torn between low-end and high-end average, but I ultimately went with the former. Thinking we’ll end up with 80-100 ACE total and probably no more than 15 NS.
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#5 Postby tolakram » Mon Sep 02, 2024 3:55 pm

I went with above average. I am not convinced but I feel like there will eventually be a seasonal peak that gives us a significant amount of ACE. Maybe.
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#6 Postby xtyphooncyclonex » Mon Sep 02, 2024 11:13 pm

I'm going with 15/9/4, ACE 140.

More quality, pretty reasonable season. A large chunk of why it's above average is Beryl.

Still quite a bust may more likely than not come, but things may change. Nonetheless, it only takes one storm to make a season notorious.
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#7 Postby ElectricStorm » Mon Sep 02, 2024 11:46 pm

Above average (155) which was my original guess in the April poll before I went up to 180 in May. Still think this season will end up being pretty active and may get close to hyperactive ACE even though the overall number of storms will likely be quite a bit lower than expected.
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#8 Postby Hammy » Mon Sep 02, 2024 11:52 pm

High end of average at this point, probably similar to 2000
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#9 Postby MarioProtVI » Tue Sep 03, 2024 12:29 am

Hammy wrote:High end of average at this point, probably similar to 2000

Still a monumental bust by any means since that’s generally 80-100 ACE below most of the forecasts for the season. Insane.
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#10 Postby Audrey2Katrina » Tue Sep 03, 2024 12:47 am

Well, I originally predicted 172 in the preseason poll, and right now sitting at 55.1, but given the July August slump, (and I know we've had these before) I still think an above average is likely. NEVER count September and October out. Africa is only beginning to churn out those CV storm systems, so, much as I hate it because I always have to sweat out hurricane season, I still think over 150 is likely.
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#11 Postby REDHurricane » Tue Sep 03, 2024 5:24 am

Interesting that I'm the only one sticking with the preseason forecasts so far and going with 200+ ACE -- I feel much less confident about it now than I did a month ago for sure, but to borrow Occam's razor for a second (gross), which scenario requires the fewer number of assumptions about the unknown to occur: A) some completely unexpected combination of factors which have also been present to some degree in past very active hurricane seasons (e.g. sun spots, WAM too far north, cold water off the coast of Greenland, anomalously warm subtropics, dry 850mb level, Atlantic Niña, +NAO, AEJ too strong, lingering atmospheric effects of El Niño, etc. etc.) is going to keep the lid shut on tropical activity for the entire peak season despite the obvious presence of all of the known ingredients for hyperactive hurricane activity as understood by modern weather science, or B) the lack of tropical activity thus far has been an anomaly in and of itself (i.e. luck) and the switch is likely going to flip sooner than later, as has been seen many times before with previous seasons?

The most compelling explanation that everyone has latched onto is that the WAM being further to the north than ever has caused many tropical waves that probably would have developed in other years to come off Africa anemic and dry, eliminating any chance for development before they even had the opportunity to try. But at least in my understanding, the WAM is already shifting back to the south and will continue to do so as the sun gradually shines more over the Southern hemisphere going into winter -- so if we know that is guaranteed to change and is changing as we speak, then why would it be crazy to think that the peak is simply being delayed until the WAM reaches its usual hurricane-producing latitude over the next several weeks?

I'd be happy to be wrong, but just from a logical, probability-based standpoint I still think it's way too early to be canceling the rest of a season that has a strengthening La Niña, record SST/OHC throughout the tropics, plus largely favorable wind shear environment on its side and three whole months left to operate. Of course it's certainly possible that one or multiple of the other factors I listed ends up significantly limiting the season's total output like a 2013, but to me that's more of a "I'll believe it when I see it" kind of thing at this juncture.
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#12 Postby Teban54 » Wed Sep 04, 2024 1:38 pm

There's a point in the CSU discussion about reaching hyperactive ACE that I wanted to explore more about here:
Obviously if the season were to take a more active trajectory, there would still be time to reach the hyperactive ACE threshold (>159.6 ACE). Again assuming no ACE generated through 9 September, the Atlantic would need to produce ~104 additional ACE. Seven years in the satellite era (since 1966) have produced >=104 ACE from 10 September-onwards: 1967, 1998, 1999, 2004, 2005, 2017, and 2020.

(They had previously noted that to hit above-average 126.3 ACE, the season just needs to roughly follow climo after September 10.)

Here's how each of the 7 seasons produced most of their 104 ACE after September 10 (which would give us a hyperactive season if we followed them exactly).

1967:
  • Cat 5 Beulah in the Caribbean and Gulf, starting from its first peak as Cat 4 (though its intensity fluctuated significantly as C4-TS-C5)
  • Three long-lived Cat 1/2s: Chloe and Doria in September, Heidi in October
1998:
  • Cat 4 Georges in the MDR, Caribbean and Gulf (very southernly track for a storm that formed on September 15)
  • Three early-recurving or subtropical Cat 1/2s in late September (Ivan, Jeanne, Karl)
  • Cat 5 Mitch, a classic October Caribbean monster
1999:
  • Most of Floyd's lifetime, as a recurving Cat 4 in the SW open Atlantic that still hit NC
  • Cat 4 Gert, a strong long-lived CV storm that formed on September 11
  • Cat 4 Lenny, a late-season Caribbean storm but in the wrong month and direction
  • Two other October Cat 2s (Irene and Jose)
2004:
  • Slightly more than half of Ivan's lifetime, starting from south of Haiti (maintained Cat 3-5 from there until landfall)
  • Cat 3 Jeanne, whose time as a hurricane was during the cyclonic loop and approach to Florida
  • Cat 4 Karl, a recurving CV storm
2005:
  • Rita and Wilma
  • Long-lived but weak storms: Ophelia (Cat 1 meandering offshore NC), the trio of weird late-season storms (TS Delta, C1 Epsilon, TS Zeta)
  • Other strong but short-lived storms: Beta (Cat 3 in SW Caribbean)
2017:
  • Irma after Cuba, moving north as Cat 4 and landfalling in SW Florida
  • Jose after its peak, already weakening on Sep 10 that stopped being Cat 4 soon after, but then becoming a long-lived Cat 1
  • Maria's entire lifetime, both as an intense Cat 5 and long-lived recurving Cat 1-3
  • Two shorter-lived majors in the subtropics: Lee (late September), Ophelia (October)
2020:
  • Cat 4 Teddy as a CV storm
  • Delta, Eta and Iota, each having enough strength and lifespan to contribute moderate ACE
  • Other shorter-lived Cat 2/3s: Sally (mid-September), Epsilon, Zeta (late October)

How you interpret this is up to you. But to me, these seasons fall broadly into three categories:

  1. A strong hurricane was already in place earlier, but still contributed significant ACE after September 10 during or past its peak (1967, 2004, 2017)
  2. An active CV season in mid to late September, preferably with a classic Cat 4+ (1998, 1999, 2004, 2017, 2020), but some with long-lived but weaker systems (1967)
  3. Significant Oct-Nov activity in the Caribbean, preferably a Cat 4+ (1998, 1999, 2005, 2020)
2005 also had an anomaly in Rita, as no other years on this list had a home-grown Gulf major, much less a sub-900. (However, Beulah and Zeta came close, as it entered the Gulf as Cat 1 and TS respectively.) Meanwhile, some years also got help from short-lived majors or meandering Cat 1/2s, though they don't contribute as much as the above.

What does this mean for 2024? We will almost certainly miss out on #1. All years that didn't have #1 (which is still the majority of the 10 seasons) relied heavily on #2 and #3, almost always both (except 2005). In other words, to hit hyperactive ACE, we need both a very active late MDR season (preferably with storms like Lorenzo 2019 and Sam 2021) and a strong Caribbean season (with classic monsters like Wilma, Mitch, Matthew, Delta, Eta and Iota; a 2010- or 2022-like late season with a bunch of Cat 1-2s won't make the cut).

(Also note that some of the #2 years had a storm forming immediately after September 10 or having already formed, such as Floyd and Teddy. We're unlikely to have that at least until September 15.)

My opinion? This is hard, but far from impossible. Yes, it does require the flip to switch almost immediately after September 15-20, and continue well into late season (at least through October, even if we don't get a full-on 2020 repeat). Both the MDR and the Caribbean need to be productive for their late seasons, preferably with several majors. Yet, precedents exist: Late-season CV storms have become slightly more common in recent years (Lorenzo, Sam, and also Tammy formed in late October), and while the Caribbean doesn't always produce (such as a 2021-like October TUTT or 2022-like random Pacific MJO), its potential is also typically insane during late season.

CSU had explicitly noted in their discussion that most concrete negative factors that we know to date will become much less detrimental, if not beneficial, as we move to late season (La Nina with better atmospheric coupling, AEJ shear, north-displaced ITCZ, warm tropopause that implies stability; I'd also add +NAO and SAL to this list). Meanwhile, the "hardware" is still there to support a more extended peak season than usual. If you're optimistic, late September may even behave like a typical early September, as the SSTs clearly support it; but even with more conservative expectations, that's still not a time when MDR suddenly becomes incapable of pumping out storms. The Caribbean has also largely been spared from MDR's troubles: shear has been generally below-average there, and its current issues are mostly lack of waves and strong trades, both of which should (hopefully) improve over time.

Unless there are still inhibiting factors that were not mentioned above... But I haven't seen any evidence suggesting that, unlike 2013 when the THC collapse eventually became identifiable, even during the season.
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#13 Postby xtyphooncyclonex » Tue Oct 22, 2024 5:55 am

At 145 ACE, we're solidly above-average. Only the higher-end two options are feasible. My forecasts came close, but were too conservative: 15/9/4 ----> 15/10/4 and 140 ----> 145 ACE.

I'm now inclined towards seeing a hyperactive season given the substantial warmth in the Caribbean and upcoming MJO.
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#14 Postby kevin » Tue Oct 22, 2024 7:05 am

Teban54 wrote:In other words, to hit hyperactive ACE, we need both a very active late MDR season (preferably with storms like Lorenzo 2019 and Sam 2021)


I included Oscar, since it originated from the MDR and was in that region for more than a week as a disturbance.

Gordon, TS, Sep 11 - 17, 40 kt, 1004 mb, 1.3 ACE
Joyce, TS, Sep 27 - 29, 45 kt, 1001 mb, 1.7 ACE
Kirk, C4, Sep 30 - Oct 7, 125 kt, 934 mb, 23.4 ACE
Leslie, C2, Oct 3 - 12, 90 kt, 972 mb, 16.1 ACE
Oscar, C1, Oct 19 - now, 75 kt, 986 mb, 4.0 ACE
Total MDR ACE since Sep 9 = 46.5

Teban54 wrote:and a strong Caribbean season (with classic monsters like Wilma, Mitch, Matthew, Delta, Eta and Iota; a 2010- or 2022-like late season with a bunch of Cat 1-2s won't make the cut).


I extended this to the GOM as well.

Francine, C2, Sep 9 - 12, 85 kt, 972 mb, 4.7 ACE
Helene, C4, Sep 24 - 27, 120 kt, 938 mb, 7.1 ACE
Milton, C5, Oct 5 - 10, 155 kt, 897 mb, 23.5 ACE
Nadine, TS, Oct 19 - 20, 45 kt, 1003 mb, 0.5 ACE
Total Carib/GOM ACE since Sep 9 = 35.8
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#15 Postby Pasmorade » Fri Nov 01, 2024 12:49 pm

160+
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#16 Postby xtyphooncyclonex » Thu Nov 07, 2024 8:49 am

I need to seriously revise my prediction. We are going hyperactive. So much for the "bust"
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Re: How much ACE will the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season get?

#17 Postby tolakram » Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:11 am

tolakram wrote:I went with above average. I am not convinced but I feel like there will eventually be a seasonal peak that gives us a significant amount of ACE. Maybe.


We might just stay below hyperactive but I think my above average pick is in real danger.
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