TS Florence,Analysis,Sat Pics Thread #5

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mj
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#321 Postby mj » Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:09 am

gatorcane wrote:looks like we have the battle of the blobs going on again tonight. Looks to me a center is trying to form well west of the NHC forecast points in the smaller blob....



I have to agree with ya. After looking at all sorts of sat. pics, I say thats the only area i can see any sort of a circulation. It also looks to be below the forecast points. It's so hard to tell, I don't know!
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#322 Postby gatorcane » Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:09 am

well last night, we saw something similar and the smaller blob lost. Maybe that will happen tonight. If not the track would shift left and maybe put the northerneastern Leeward islands under some watches (due to the shear size of this system).....
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#323 Postby mj » Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:11 am

All the systems this year have been so hard to figuire out. It sucks!
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#324 Postby southerngale » Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:13 am

bob rulz wrote: Legit questions are involved and sometimes struck down because they appear to be -removed- (when oftentimes they're clearly not).


Exactly!

I know of people who haven't wanted to ask questions for fear of being called a w!shcaster. I assured them that Storm2k was a place where there were NO stupid questions, and a great place to learn. If they'd read some of the posts on the last few pages of this thread (among others), they'd think I was crazy.

I'm getting sick of seeing people accusing others of -removed-. Yeah, we all know some people do it. But there are MORE people who are just concerned and/or trying to learn, so how about we ALL keep our -removed- comments to ourselves? This is supposed to be a friendly place to learn and share. And it WILL be, even if a few people get a forced vacation. The staff is tired of all the rude comments.
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#325 Postby SouthFloridawx » Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:32 am

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#326 Postby clfenwi » Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:13 am

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#327 Postby Matt-hurricanewatcher » Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:32 am

10 knot decreases over the system in shear...With 5 to 10 knot shear on the eastern side. But as it moves west-northwestward it is moving inline with the ULL/TUTT you see to its northwest. The slower the better for this system...Lets see if it can develop a central core...
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#328 Postby StrongWind » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:24 am

I think it's looking pretty ugly. Best I can tell, the center of circulation, if there is one, is at least 5-6 degrees wnw away from the main blob of convection at 50W 20N.

Edit - is it that the convection blob is remaining pretty much stationary with any coc slowly pulling away?
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#329 Postby HURAKAN » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:12 am

mj wrote:All the systems this year have been so hard to figuire out. It sucks!


Great time to learn how a cyclone works. It's not 2005 style that you had a cloud and in a day you had a storm. It's 2006 style where development is not very easy.
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#330 Postby HURAKAN » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:15 am

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#331 Postby HURAKAN » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:22 am

Hurricane Erin
1 - 15 September 2001
Richard J. Pasch and Daniel P. Brown
National Hurricane Center
20 November 2001
Revised: 25 January 2002

Erin was the third of a series of four "interrupted track" tropical cyclones during the 2001 Atlantic hurricane season. After re-forming, it strengthened to a category three hurricane on the Saffir-Simpson Hurricane Scale, just to the east of Bermuda.

a. Synoptic History
Erin can be traced back to a tropical wave that emerged from western Africa on 30 August. The system almost immediately showed signs of tropical cyclone formation, with curvature in the bands of associated deep convection. Dvorak classifications commenced at 1800 UTC on the 30th. There was little change in the system's organization, and deep convection was sporadic for the next day or so. On 1 September the cloud pattern began to become better organized, and based on the satellite presentation as well as drifting buoy data that showed a definite closed surface circulation, it is estimated that a tropical depression formed by 1800 UTC that day, located about 600 n mi west-southwest of the Cape Verde Islands. With a mid-tropospheric ridge in place to its north, the tropical cyclone moved on a west to west-northwestward heading at 14-18 kt over the following three days.

At first, there was weak to moderate vertical shear over the area, and the cyclone was able to strengthen into Tropical Storm Erin by 0600 UTC 2 September. Erin's maximum winds increased to near 50 knots by 0600 UTC 3 September. Later on the 3rd, vertical shear associated with an upper-level low to the northwest caused the low-level center of the storm to become exposed to the southwest of the main area of deep convection, indicating that Erin had weakened. On the 4th, the shear appeared to lessen somewhat, and Erin re-strengthened slightly. However the system failed to become much better organized, and was soon on a weakening trend. By 5 September, southwesterly shear caused the tropical cyclone to degenerate into an area of disturbed weather.

About a day later, a surface circulation re-developed in the northern part of the area of disturbed weather that was associated with Erin. The re-generated tropical depression moved north-northeastward, then north-northwestward, and regained tropical storm strength about 550 n mi north-northeast of the northern Leeward Islands at 1800 UTC 7 September. After a mid-level ridge to the north of Erin was temporarily weakened by a passing trough, the ridge re-built, moving the storm toward the northwest and north-northwest. Erin strengthened into a hurricane late on the 8th. While passing east of Bermuda on the 9th, Erin continued to strengthen, and it reached its peak intensity of 105 kt around 1800 UTC that day. A few hours later, the eye of the hurricane passed within about 90 n mi east-northeast of Bermuda, which was Erin's point of closest approach to the island.

After brushing Bermuda, the hurricane continued to move mainly toward the north-northwest. On 10 September, Erin began to weaken, however the weakening was slower than usual over the ensuing days, due in part to slightly warmer than normal waters over the western subtropical Atlantic. A series of short-wave troughs weakened the western portion of the Atlantic subtropical ridge. This caused the motion of the hurricane to turn toward the right, with a decrease in forward speed, on the 11th. Erin's heading veered toward the east-northeast and east on the 12th. Then, a broad, amplifying mid- to upper-level trough over eastern Canada accelerated Erin toward the northeast. The center passed just east of Cape Race, Newfoundland at 0000 UTC, while the system was weakening to just below hurricane strength. Then, Erin lost its tropical characteristics. The extratropical storm accelerated north-northeastward and passed over southern Greenland on 16 September, and merged with high-latitude cyclonic flow over eastern Greenland on the 17th.
_____________________________________________________________

Florence is having almost the same fate as Erin. Of course, the shear is not forecasted to be strong enough to kill Florence, but both systems where affected by UL shear coming from an ULL to its northwest. The important lesson here is that after the shear relaxes, significant strenghtening can be expected, Erin style!!!
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#332 Postby marcane_1973 » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:29 am

I noticed there have been a lot of people on here scared of this strom especially the Northeast coasters. The storm is getting sheared and there is a little bit of dry air getting sucked into the system. It doesnt look too hot right now. Now I know things can change quick and all the inhibiting factors can stop any moment now and is forecasted too but why does everyone think that this will be like a Floyd for example. Conditons in the Atlantic are not even close to what Floyd or any other major cane had to work with. Florence is a sure bet it will not even come close to touching him. Right now Florence is having problems becoming a minimal Hurricane. If the track were to take Florence into the Northeast it will weaken considerably most likely not even be a Hurricane and if so only a low end Cat1 most likely with the cooler waters in that region. I just do not see what is sooo scary about a storm that does not even look near as good as Ernesto did off the S.C. N.C. coast at the moment. Even if every forecaster and model makes it a CAT 3 I would not buy into that just yet. Take it one day at a time and see where Florence stands which is barely above a minimal TS at the moment. It looks as though Bermuda will be near the current path of Florence so hopefully it will not be stronger than a Cat1 and track further West so they get spared the worst.
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#333 Postby Normandy » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:31 am

I am lost in regards to finding Florence's main center.

I see the overall circulation envelope and it is huge, but the center vortex I just can't find for the life of me. The center that I pointed out earlier has absolutely vanished...

The only place I can really think of that a true low level center for Florence would be is under the convection, because otherwise I don't see anything resembling a center.
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#334 Postby Thatsmrhurricane » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:33 am

I can not tell either, but I'm putting 20N 52W on my chart for right now as my best guess.
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#335 Postby HURAKAN » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:37 am

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#336 Postby Lowpressure » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:48 am

I am surprised that she looks so well banded and circular to not have a clear, easy to find LLC. Recon would be interesting here. If she were to get a core, she would potentially explode looking at structure anyway.
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#337 Postby Thatsmrhurricane » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:50 am

Even more N? Was that a center re-location last night from SW to NE?
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#338 Postby Thatsmrhurricane » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:59 am

Anyone else noticing the S to N movement of the low clouds at 18N 55W before 945UTC? Like the little swirl just fizzled out. But should not the movement, if the center is back around 20N52-54W, be around the center from the W to the E?
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#339 Postby bluejay99 » Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:05 am

What is everyone's opinion on the chances of a landfall in Nova Scotia and what do think the intensity would be like when it reached here. Remember a few years back Juan visited us up here, and the waters are warmer now than they were back then.
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#340 Postby Thunder44 » Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:26 am

QS Pass just in shows the center near 19N 53W:

http://manati.orbit.nesdis.noaa.gov/dat ... MBas26.png

As you here in my visible image pic, the thunderstorms are about 105 miles NE of the center.

Image

Here's an infrared image:

Image
Last edited by Thunder44 on Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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