Possible development in the Gulf of Mexico (Is Invest 92L)

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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#101 Postby underthwx » Sat Sep 28, 2024 7:58 am

wxman57 wrote:Ah, another storm late next week? The setup looks quite different from Helene, and the models are seeing it, with the exception of the GFS. The upper-level pattern has shifted to fall across the Gulf. Models, except for the GFS, indicate a significant cold front moving south through the Gulf on Tuesday. Kind of similar to the setup before Francine, but with stronger west wind aloft across the northern Gulf - a less favorable environment. Whenever a cold front makes it south across the western Gulf, the air accelerates down the coast of Mexico, forming a natural wave on the front, usually east of Brownsville. The Euro, ICON, and Canadian see the front, though the Canadian adds some extra flair in the extended range. GFS doesn't see the front.

What's going to happen? I wouldn't go with the GFS solution, as it's almost always too aggressive with strengthening in this setup. Plus, it may be too weak with the front. Euro is generally too weak this far out. I'd go with the 00Z ICON solution. More of a frontal low in the central Gulf by next Saturday. With all the model support, I think a low will, indeed develop. I don't know if it'll be tropical enough for the NHC to name. Given the upper level flow, I'd say Florida will be in its sights. Hopefully, it's a weak low.

Meanwhile, I now have 5 more comp days to take, so I think I'll take Monday and Tuesday off. Kind of chilly outside this morning. It's 68 degrees! Better check the status of the heater. Have to let it warm up a bit before heading out for a long ride.

Thar works for me Xman!....and yes!....its chilly outside this morning....feels great!....enjoy your time off bro...


.
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/30)

#102 Postby tropicwatch » Sat Sep 28, 2024 8:12 am

Frank P wrote:Looks like a weak broad rotation spinning in the SW Caribbean tonight. Click on image for loop.

[url]https://i.ibb.co/W5kVQhX/46721420.gif [/url]


Frank, I looked at that this morning. The vorticity is currently a the 200mb level.
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#103 Postby wzrgirl1 » Sat Sep 28, 2024 9:07 am

wxman57 wrote:Ah, another storm late next week? The setup looks quite different from Helene, and the models are seeing it, with the exception of the GFS. The upper-level pattern has shifted to fall across the Gulf. Models, except for the GFS, indicate a significant cold front moving south through the Gulf on Tuesday. Kind of similar to the setup before Francine, but with stronger west wind aloft across the northern Gulf - a less favorable environment. Whenever a cold front makes it south across the western Gulf, the air accelerates down the coast of Mexico, forming a natural wave on the front, usually east of Brownsville. The Euro, ICON, and Canadian see the front, though the Canadian adds some extra flair in the extended range. GFS doesn't see the front.

What's going to happen? I wouldn't go with the GFS solution, as it's almost always too aggressive with strengthening in this setup. Plus, it may be too weak with the front. Euro is generally too weak this far out. I'd go with the 00Z ICON solution. More of a frontal low in the central Gulf by next Saturday. With all the model support, I think a low will, indeed develop. I don't know if it'll be tropical enough for the NHC to name. Given the upper level flow, I'd say Florida will be in its sights. Hopefully, it's a weak low.

Meanwhile, I now have 5 more comp days to take, so I think I'll take Monday and Tuesday off. Kind of chilly outside this morning. It's 68 degrees! Better check the status of the heater. Have to let it warm up a bit before heading out for a long ride.


Thanks. Which part of Florida is most likely? North, central, south?
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#104 Postby USTropics » Sat Sep 28, 2024 9:08 am

This is one of my favorite products to track these sort of CAG developments, where we essentially get some information from every level of the atmosphere. Wind barbs plotted are upper-level, the solid lines/dams are 500mb height (mid levels), and the shaded contours is 850mb vorticity (lower levels). Analyzed below we have our upper-level low like tropicwatch mentioned above highlighted in pink here (and moving quickly to the NW). Our tropical wave is also highlighted in teal:
Image

Neither of these features will actually be catalysts for the GFS's solution on direct development, but it does play a role in preconditioning the environment out ahead of development. In 24 hours, we should see a new upper-level feature enter the Caribbean that I've also outlined here in pink:
Image

A common area of low-level vorticity development due to the terrain is located near Columbia/Panama (highlighted in teal below). Essentially the orientation of the mountain range and valley in this region provides a topographical lift that assists in low-level vorticity forming here. Some of this vorticity in 48 hours will begin to interact with the new upper-level feature entering the Caribbean:
Image
Image


Full loop through 120 hours showing this evolution:
Image
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#105 Postby Frank P » Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:15 am

Image
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#106 Postby Steve » Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:22 am

MJO well could be in 2 or 3 next weekend. If the front backs or washes or trough splits back, conditions would be ripe to bring in a decent system though given the first week of October, probably on the low end if it were to come up to the N or NE Gulf. A couple of the decent globals show a slight dip of a trough into the Great Lakes that would tug it up on a NE or NNE heading but solid Atlantic ridging not allowing it to get too far east in the Gulf. Gotta watch things this week.

CMC at 180 hours
https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 800&fh=180

ICON (but only out to 120). 180 available at 12z when run is finished.

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 806&fh=120


GFS with a different setup per wx57.
https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/analysi ... 806&fh=174
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#107 Postby gatorcane » Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:32 am

wxman57 wrote:Ah, another storm late next week? The setup looks quite different from Helene, and the models are seeing it, with the exception of the GFS. The upper-level pattern has shifted to fall across the Gulf. Models, except for the GFS, indicate a significant cold front moving south through the Gulf on Tuesday. Kind of similar to the setup before Francine, but with stronger west wind aloft across the northern Gulf - a less favorable environment. Whenever a cold front makes it south across the western Gulf, the air accelerates down the coast of Mexico, forming a natural wave on the front, usually east of Brownsville. The Euro, ICON, and Canadian see the front, though the Canadian adds some extra flair in the extended range. GFS doesn't see the front.
What's going to happen? I wouldn't go with the GFS solution, as it's almost always too aggressive with strengthening in this setup. Plus, it may be too weak with the front. Euro is generally too weak this far out. I'd go with the 00Z ICON solution. More of a frontal low in the central Gulf by next Saturday. With all the model support, I think a low will, indeed develop. I don't know if it'll be tropical enough for the NHC to name. Given the upper level flow, I'd say Florida will be in its sights. Hopefully, it's a weak low.

Meanwhile, I now have 5 more comp days to take, so I think I'll take Monday and Tuesday off. Kind of chilly outside this morning. It's 68 degrees! Better check the status of the heater. Have to let it warm up a bit before heading out for a long ride.

I agree anything that develops in the Western Caribbean is probably not going to be an issue for the Western Gulf, Florida or the EGOM would most likely be a target. The EC-AIFS like the CMC show something which turns east into Florida, for now they models are generally weak:

Image
Image
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#108 Postby ConvergenceZone » Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:50 am

Wxman, I agree with ya. Fronts seem to be aggressive this late season. I think that anything that forms the rest of this season will probably be on the weak side. We are getting to the time of year where fronts get stronger and the gulf turns unfavorable like you mentioned. Other than this weak storm possible in the gulf that you mentioned, anything strong that forms will probably be pulled out to sea due to more fronts coming down and weaknesses developing. We are seeing that already with storms forming in the Atlantic. I'm fine with this though. It's already been a horrible year for folks with landfalling hurricanes.
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#109 Postby WeatherBoy2000 » Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:09 am

ConvergenceZone wrote:Wxman, I agree with ya. Fronts seem to be aggressive this late season. I think that anything that forms the rest of this season will probably be on the weak side. We are getting to the time of year where fronts get stronger and the gulf turns unfavorable like you mentioned. Other than this weak storm possible in the gulf that you mentioned, anything strong that forms will probably be pulled out to sea due to more fronts coming down and weaknesses developing. We are seeing that already with storms forming in the Atlantic. I'm fine with this though. It's already been a horrible year for folks with landfalling hurricanes.


We still have all of October to get through which is still prime time for gulf majors of this variety. Just because conditions might be unfavorable for this AOI doesn't mean they'll be unfavorable for something else later in the month.
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#110 Postby ThunderForce » Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:13 am

12z GFS seems to suddenly have this start trying to form into a tropical system as early as Tuesday, October 1st...
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#111 Postby gatorcane » Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:22 am

MUCH stronger in the Gulf on the GFS. CMC is a bit stronger also. GFS shifts west and the CMC shifts east towards Florida
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#112 Postby Pelicane » Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:26 am

gatorcane wrote:MUCH stronger in the Gulf on the GFS. CMC is a bit stronger also. GFS shifts west and the CMC shifts east towards Florida


GEFS is also much stronger with more members.
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#113 Postby USTropics » Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:27 am

ConvergenceZone wrote:Wxman, I agree with ya. Fronts seem to be aggressive this late season. I think that anything that forms the rest of this season will probably be on the weak side. We are getting to the time of year where fronts get stronger and the gulf turns unfavorable like you mentioned. Other than this weak storm possible in the gulf that you mentioned, anything strong that forms will probably be pulled out to sea due to more fronts coming down and weaknesses developing. We are seeing that already with storms forming in the Atlantic. I'm fine with this though. It's already been a horrible year for folks with landfalling hurricanes.


Just curious why you think that? Some of the strongest hurricanes on record occurred in October (see Wilma, October 15th - 27th). I wouldn't let my guard down until the end of November, La Nina is settling in and it seems climatology has been delayed by 2-3 weeks this season.
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#114 Postby xironman » Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:29 am

wxman57 wrote:Ah, another storm late next week? The setup looks quite different from Helene, and the models are seeing it, with the exception of the GFS. The upper-level pattern has shifted to fall across the Gulf. Models, except for the GFS, indicate a significant cold front moving south through the Gulf on Tuesday. Kind of similar to the setup before Francine, but with stronger west wind aloft across the northern Gulf - a less favorable environment. Whenever a cold front makes it south across the western Gulf, the air accelerates down the coast of Mexico, forming a natural wave on the front, usually east of Brownsville. The Euro, ICON, and Canadian see the front, though the Canadian adds some extra flair in the extended range. GFS doesn't see the front.

What's going to happen? I wouldn't go with the GFS solution, as it's almost always too aggressive with strengthening in this setup. Plus, it may be too weak with the front. Euro is generally too weak this far out. I'd go with the 00Z ICON solution. More of a frontal low in the central Gulf by next Saturday. With all the model support, I think a low will, indeed develop. I don't know if it'll be tropical enough for the NHC to name. Given the upper level flow, I'd say Florida will be in its sights. Hopefully, it's a weak low.

Meanwhile, I now have 5 more comp days to take, so I think I'll take Monday and Tuesday off. Kind of chilly outside this morning. It's 68 degrees! Better check the status of the heater. Have to let it warm up a bit before heading out for a long ride.


You did great with the landfall for Helene, kudos. A tiny bit off on the 75kt though.
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#115 Postby gatorcane » Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:32 am

12Z CMC. I think the GFS is way too far west. Normally the CMC is left-bias and left of the GFS:

Image

12Z GFS:
Image
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#116 Postby Teban54 » Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:43 am

gatorcane wrote:12Z CMC. I think the GFS is way too far west. Normally the CMC is left-bias and left of the GFS:

https://i.postimg.cc/prqrsXCb/gem-mslpa-Norm-watl-fh78-204.gif

12Z GFS:
https://i.postimg.cc/1Xx2bpWD/gfs-mslpa-Norm-watl-fh78-204.gif

The CMC track would push water into Tampa Bay for a longer duration than Helene did thanks to its much slower movement.
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#117 Postby LAF92 » Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:44 am

gatorcane wrote:12Z CMC. I think the GFS is way too far west. Normally the CMC is left-bias and left of the GFS:

https://i.postimg.cc/prqrsXCb/gem-mslpa-Norm-watl-fh78-204.gif

12Z GFS:
https://i.postimg.cc/1Xx2bpWD/gfs-mslpa-Norm-watl-fh78-204.gif

The CMC has been garbage all season. It always has to play catchup. Maybe the GFS is too far west but the CMC isn’t reliable at all
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#118 Postby Hypercane_Kyle » Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:46 am

LAF92 wrote:
gatorcane wrote:12Z CMC. I think the GFS is way too far west. Normally the CMC is left-bias and left of the GFS:

https://i.postimg.cc/prqrsXCb/gem-mslpa-Norm-watl-fh78-204.gif

12Z GFS:
https://i.postimg.cc/1Xx2bpWD/gfs-mslpa-Norm-watl-fh78-204.gif

The CMC has been garbage all season. It always has to play catchup. Maybe the GFS is too far west but the CMC isn’t reliable at all


Both are more reliable than the Euro, to be perfectly honest.
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#119 Postby LAF92 » Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:48 am

Hypercane_Kyle wrote:
LAF92 wrote:
gatorcane wrote:12Z CMC. I think the GFS is way too far west. Normally the CMC is left-bias and left of the GFS:

https://i.postimg.cc/prqrsXCb/gem-mslpa-Norm-watl-fh78-204.gif

12Z GFS:
https://i.postimg.cc/1Xx2bpWD/gfs-mslpa-Norm-watl-fh78-204.gif

The CMC has been garbage all season. It always has to play catchup. Maybe the GFS is too far west but the CMC isn’t reliable at all


Both are more reliable than the Euro, to be perfectly honest.

Yeah I don’t even take the Euro seriously right now. GFS ICON are the main global models that need to be taken seriously this season
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Re: Possible development in the Western Caribbean (0/40)

#120 Postby Hypercane_Kyle » Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:53 am

LAF92 wrote:
Hypercane_Kyle wrote:
LAF92 wrote:The CMC has been garbage all season. It always has to play catchup. Maybe the GFS is too far west but the CMC isn’t reliable at all


Both are more reliable than the Euro, to be perfectly honest.

Yeah I don’t even take the Euro seriously right now. GFS ICON are the main global models that need to be taken seriously this season


True - although lately I am impressed by the performance of the EC-AIFS model vs the operational ECMWF. It seems to handle these complex genesis scenarios a lot better.
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