Are we like the army?

[justlooking]

In the army, when they don't have a war to fight, they tend to attack each other. It sure looks to me like we are starting to do the same thing. I can't understand why individuals on the same side would bash each other. This didn't happen when Izzy was in full bloom.
How about those of us who aren't professionals ask questions about hurricanes? Let's take this time to learn.
I didn't catch an answer to the questions about the vortices in Izzy's eye. Would some of you please explain this phenonenom?
We drove east on I-80 in PA this week end and noticed a few trees damaged. Nothing bad. That storm could have been a disaster. Thank God she wasn't. We're headed to Savannah for tomorrow.

God bless,
Lula

[JCT777]

Lula - I think on any messageboard, disagreements will happen and of course they sometimes can get out of hand. I think this board's discussions are great and rarely, if ever, become flame wars as they often do elsewhere.

I do not know the answer to your question about the vortices in Isabel's eye, but hopefully somebody will be able to answer that. Have fun in Savannah!

[GulfBreezer]

Well said Johnathan and John!!

[Stormsfury]

About Isabel's multiple vorticies within the eye, so far there isn't a definite answer to that. The only thing that I think that can come close to comparison is that they were mesovorticities (or sub-vorticities). In more layman's terms, think of many swirls rotating around a larger circulation (much like a multiple vortex tornado in the Plain States. In fact, we may have gotten a rare glimpse of what a multiple vortex tornado would look like from high above, just on a more grand scale with the hurricane.)

With Isabel, we may have witnessed something we may not see for some time in the future.

[george_r_1961]

While I have no formal met training I have been tracking/forecasting tropical cyclones and other severe weather for about 30 years now. I dont take it personally when someone disagrees with me here or in chat; the purpose of storm2k is for ordinary folks like to to share opinions and thoughts on weather related issues. Also we have a few trained mets here as well that have been kind enough to offer their expertise and guidance. Many times I have offered feedback here and in chat and in doing so offended some people. That was not my intent. Lets learn from each other instead of fighting with each other; more importantly lets not lose touch with what storm2k is all about.

[ColdFront77]

Our discussions about tropical systems should have more understanding among amatuer and professional meteorologist and others that have joined Storm2K that are more learning weather than actually being interested in the subject/following it for the last several years.

Tropical storms and hurricanes movement are the most difficult weather systems to forecast, even more so when there is no steering pattern strong enough to move them in any particular direction and when they start to move in a particular direction, that direction may change.

Hopefully we can all understand each other and not get upset with others opinions, even when a storm cannot move through a strong trough or can't continue westward on it's approach to the southwestern corner of the a high pressure circulation.

[OtherHD]

Disagreements are a part of any message board. If you try to take away the ability to debate or even argue, it becomes boring and very one sided. I enjoy seeing these little battles every once in a while. It's a good way to release pent up tensions and feelings.

[capecodder]

Those star-like vortices are called Rossby waves. I had no idea, but was ofer at Lou's Weather, and under tropical links, on the main page, there's a pretty technical description of them. Apparently they're not unusual in Cat 5s.

[capecodder]

I meant to include this pic.

http://community-2.webtv.net/ltursi/doc1/

[Stormsfury]

Those star-like vortices are called Rossby waves. I had no idea, but was ofer at Lou's Weather, and under tropical links, on the main page, there's a pretty technical description of them. Apparently they're not unusual in Cat 5s.

Great find, Capecodder.

I did a search on Rossby waves and found a couple of things on those as well.

http://www.asp.ucar.edu/colloquium/1998/montgomery.html

This last paragraph from that link above is very striking in its statement.

In closing, we are now in a slightly more educated position to provide some preliminary answers to the motivating questions posed at the beginning of this lecture. Given the tendency for a developing TC to form a vortex sheet in its eyewall, asymmetries (‘eddies’) in TC’s are inevitable without asymmetric forcing from the TC environment. Moreover, eddies near the interior edge of the eyewall appear to be necessary in order for a hurricane to reach its maximum potential intensity. Although the necessity of eddies in TC’s is not surprising in light of the three-dimensional nature of cumulus convection on small scales and barotropic and inertial instability in the TC’s outflow layer (Anthes 1982, Black and Anthes 1971, Flatau and Stevens 1989), the implications of this realization for the vorticity dynamics of the eyewall region of the TC are just beginning to become appreciated.

Appears to me that Isabel reached its maximum potential hurricane intensity because of the features above. Also of note, it definitely appeared in its inception that there were mesovorticies embedded in the overall circulation of Isabel when it was developing which only seemed to aid in its development to make the storm one of the most powerful and talked about storm in quite some time.

Another link for the Rossby Waves phenomenon from GFDL. It's a postscript file and requires a postscript viewer (something I haven't installed on this new machine just yet).

http://www.gfdl.gov/~dsn/morew1preprint.ps

SF

[john186292]

Idle army fighting within itself? Interesting, new to me.

Any examples?

I like to study social groups.

John new orleans

[ColdFront77]

Disagreements are a part of any message board. If you try to take away the ability to debate or even argue, it becomes boring and very one sided. I enjoy seeing these little battles every once in a while. It's a good way to release pent up tensions and feelings.

Sure, we have friendly disagreements, which is a good form of debating. I wouldn't call "true arguing" "friendly." I rather say we are having a discussion with individuals that aren't agreeing.

Lyle, I am glad you consider these "little battles," better than calling them "regular battles." One must admit, it is a good thing they don't happen too often.