Texas Winter 2023-2024

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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3741 Postby orangeblood » Wed Feb 07, 2024 9:48 am

Tammie wrote:Oh dear, Mr. Cosgrove… :cold:

“Starting soon, a genuine cold wave that will be hard to get rid of.”

https://clearskyweather.com/2024/02/07/ ... et-rid-of/

“It would be wise to do a walk-through on why the weather pattern will be colder than what we have experienced nationally since mid-January. This is not February 2021 redux; rather, it is a more spread-out event that will support perhaps two ice and snow events along the southern and eastern tier of the lower 48 states. I cannot be any more specific than that, but the similarity of the numerical models and analogs is impressive.

Most likely time frame: February 12 – March 7. There could be a small break of moderation involved somewhere. But climatology of -EPO/-AO/-NAO blocking scenarios basically involves temperature averages in most of the USA being below normal. And in the case of the south central and Dixie states, well below average.

Storm threats: judging by the 500MB height anomalies on the various models, February 12 – 14 and February 17 – 20. Track probability is greatest along a South Texas – Florida – Nova Scotia arc. The second threat appears to be greater and would involve a good deal of frozen types to the left of the path of the disturbances.

Strongest cold potential: February 16 – 20 from the High Plains to the Gulf and East Coast.

Clues in the synoptic pattern that the cold/snow risks should not be taken lightly: even with so much ridging, a gap in the upper flow is present which will allow for cross-polar flow. Also, note that the Arctic jet stream dips below the Great Lakes with recurrent cAk vortex formation in Ontario, James Bay, and Quebec. Also note the evolution of a storm aloft that gets into Baja California. Very low in latitude, redevelopment should be below the TX Gulf Coast. That trajectory is a colder and wetter one for the Lone Star State, the Deep South and Eastern Seaboard.“


Cosgrove does put out some good stuff occasionally but that Headline seems very misleading....this "Genuine Cold Wave" is clearly being moderated and quite easily on almost every Global Ensemble. The Alaskan Ridge is very short lived. As its forecast to move back over towards Siberia, allowing the Pacific Jet to crash into the west coast bringing with it warmer Pacific Air. This air destroys this cold Cosgrove mentions.

And after that, Greenland Block weakens and back to zonal flow. Sure, it appears below normal mainly due to active storm track across southern US but a Genuine Cold Wave seems pretty far fetched.

Source Region looks good around Feb 18-19th time frame then gets crushed by Pacific Air a few days later. Not sure what Cosgrove is looking at, seems to be chasing his tail the past several weeks with his cold mongerer narrative!

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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3742 Postby South Texas Storms » Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:05 am

:uarrow: Agreed, I'm not seeing much arctic air making it south across the U.S. over the next few weeks. And with climatological averages quickly rising this month, it's going to be hard to get very cold air (similar to the January cold blast) to Texas.

It definitely looks like the upcoming cooler than normal temperature period is mainly due to an active storm track across the southern U.S.
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3743 Postby dhweather » Wed Feb 07, 2024 10:21 am

Not that I'm complaining, but I'm not seeing it happen either.
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3744 Postby Harp.1 » Wed Feb 07, 2024 11:45 am

LC has been saying this for a while and it looks like he’s sticking to it. He will have a huge plate of crow to eat if he ends up wrong.
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3745 Postby Wthrfan » Wed Feb 07, 2024 11:45 am

Since I have been following him, Larry has been right more often than wrong, but I do wonder if he is out over his skis (had to use a "cold" pun!) on this one.
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3746 Postby Gotwood » Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:05 pm

orangeblood wrote:
Tammie wrote:Oh dear, Mr. Cosgrove… :cold:

“Starting soon, a genuine cold wave that will be hard to get rid of.”

https://clearskyweather.com/2024/02/07/ ... et-rid-of/

“It would be wise to do a walk-through on why the weather pattern will be colder than what we have experienced nationally since mid-January. This is not February 2021 redux; rather, it is a more spread-out event that will support perhaps two ice and snow events along the southern and eastern tier of the lower 48 states. I cannot be any more specific than that, but the similarity of the numerical models and analogs is impressive.

Most likely time frame: February 12 – March 7. There could be a small break of moderation involved somewhere. But climatology of -EPO/-AO/-NAO blocking scenarios basically involves temperature averages in most of the USA being below normal. And in the case of the south central and Dixie states, well below average.

Storm threats: judging by the 500MB height anomalies on the various models, February 12 – 14 and February 17 – 20. Track probability is greatest along a South Texas – Florida – Nova Scotia arc. The second threat appears to be greater and would involve a good deal of frozen types to the left of the path of the disturbances.

Strongest cold potential: February 16 – 20 from the High Plains to the Gulf and East Coast.

Clues in the synoptic pattern that the cold/snow risks should not be taken lightly: even with so much ridging, a gap in the upper flow is present which will allow for cross-polar flow. Also, note that the Arctic jet stream dips below the Great Lakes with recurrent cAk vortex formation in Ontario, James Bay, and Quebec. Also note the evolution of a storm aloft that gets into Baja California. Very low in latitude, redevelopment should be below the TX Gulf Coast. That trajectory is a colder and wetter one for the Lone Star State, the Deep South and Eastern Seaboard.“


Cosgrove does put out some good stuff occasionally but that Headline seems very misleading....this "Genuine Cold Wave" is clearly being moderated and quite easily on almost every Global Ensemble. The Alaskan Ridge is very short lived. As its forecast to move back over towards Siberia, allowing the Pacific Jet to crash into the west coast bringing with it warmer Pacific Air. This air destroys this cold Cosgrove mentions.

And after that, Greenland Block weakens and back to zonal flow. Sure, it appears below normal mainly due to active storm track across southern US but a Genuine Cold Wave seems pretty far fetched.

Source Region looks good around Feb 18-19th time frame then gets crushed by Pacific Air a few days later. Not sure what Cosgrove is looking at, seems to be chasing his tail the past several weeks with his cold mongerer narrative!

https://images.weatherbell.com/model/gfs-ensemble-all-avg/nhemi/t850_anom_stream/1707285600/1708322400-eW1keK0Ug0o.png
https://images.weatherbell.com/model/gfs-ensemble-all-avg/nhemi/t850_anom_stream/1707285600/1708668000-qvWspXc2EHw.png

If I’ve learned anything it’s never trust models 2 weeks out. Still a long ways to go until anything is known for certain. Remember back in January when the models were saying cold is here to stay and then in a blink of an eye the flood gates were opened lol. That’s the great thing about Mother Nature it does what it wants. Looking forward to some snow chances in the coming weeks I’m not throwing in the winter towel yet.
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3747 Postby orangeblood » Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:26 pm

Gotwood wrote:
orangeblood wrote:
Tammie wrote:Oh dear, Mr. Cosgrove… :cold:

“Starting soon, a genuine cold wave that will be hard to get rid of.”

https://clearskyweather.com/2024/02/07/ ... et-rid-of/

“It would be wise to do a walk-through on why the weather pattern will be colder than what we have experienced nationally since mid-January. This is not February 2021 redux; rather, it is a more spread-out event that will support perhaps two ice and snow events along the southern and eastern tier of the lower 48 states. I cannot be any more specific than that, but the similarity of the numerical models and analogs is impressive.

Most likely time frame: February 12 – March 7. There could be a small break of moderation involved somewhere. But climatology of -EPO/-AO/-NAO blocking scenarios basically involves temperature averages in most of the USA being below normal. And in the case of the south central and Dixie states, well below average.

Storm threats: judging by the 500MB height anomalies on the various models, February 12 – 14 and February 17 – 20. Track probability is greatest along a South Texas – Florida – Nova Scotia arc. The second threat appears to be greater and would involve a good deal of frozen types to the left of the path of the disturbances.

Strongest cold potential: February 16 – 20 from the High Plains to the Gulf and East Coast.

Clues in the synoptic pattern that the cold/snow risks should not be taken lightly: even with so much ridging, a gap in the upper flow is present which will allow for cross-polar flow. Also, note that the Arctic jet stream dips below the Great Lakes with recurrent cAk vortex formation in Ontario, James Bay, and Quebec. Also note the evolution of a storm aloft that gets into Baja California. Very low in latitude, redevelopment should be below the TX Gulf Coast. That trajectory is a colder and wetter one for the Lone Star State, the Deep South and Eastern Seaboard.“


Cosgrove does put out some good stuff occasionally but that Headline seems very misleading....this "Genuine Cold Wave" is clearly being moderated and quite easily on almost every Global Ensemble. The Alaskan Ridge is very short lived. As its forecast to move back over towards Siberia, allowing the Pacific Jet to crash into the west coast bringing with it warmer Pacific Air. This air destroys this cold Cosgrove mentions.

And after that, Greenland Block weakens and back to zonal flow. Sure, it appears below normal mainly due to active storm track across southern US but a Genuine Cold Wave seems pretty far fetched.

Source Region looks good around Feb 18-19th time frame then gets crushed by Pacific Air a few days later. Not sure what Cosgrove is looking at, seems to be chasing his tail the past several weeks with his cold mongerer narrative!

https://images.weatherbell.com/model/gfs-ensemble-all-avg/nhemi/t850_anom_stream/1707285600/1708322400-eW1keK0Ug0o.png
https://images.weatherbell.com/model/gfs-ensemble-all-avg/nhemi/t850_anom_stream/1707285600/1708668000-qvWspXc2EHw.png

If I’ve learned anything it’s never trust models 2 weeks out. Still a long ways to go until anything is known for certain. Remember back in January when the models were saying cold is here to stay and then in a blink of an eye the flood gates were opened lol. That’s the great thing about Mother Nature it does what it wants. Looking forward to some snow chances in the coming weeks I’m not throwing in the winter towel yet.


Agreed, no reason to throw in the towel yet...definitely some potential, particularly in the Feb 18-20th time frame, as several ENS members have been hinting at and our source region is ready to deliver. It's after that is where my big concern lies, that Pacific jet looks really amped up to round out February
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3748 Postby Harp.1 » Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:29 pm

Check out the 12Z GFS. Particularly the Feb 19th or so time frame
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3749 Postby Ntxw » Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:39 pm

AO is still forecasted to go below January levels. NAO though not as negative so Atlantic blocking not as strong. PNA will be positive. All this says the coldest air should be east of the MS.

Of course we don't need the coldest air for snow. Still need the right storm track.
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3750 Postby Stratton23 » Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:07 pm

Im not calling for severe cold, but their should most definitely be enough cold to potentially work with, as txtwister78 poinited out early a dynamic system can take advantage of it, and at the very least the models do show marginal cold, we will see , either way ill take below normal over the hell fest weather thats just a few months away
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3751 Postby txtwister78 » Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:09 pm

17th-21st has always been the target period to watch as mentioned a few days ago on here. Ensembles generally for the most part have been highlighting that period over the past several runs and so it's not a surprise to see the GFS, Euro and Canadian operationals introduce some colder air around that timeframe.

I think anyone going to the extremes though (Jan of this year or Feb 2021) is just hyping, but as also mentioned yesterday, you don't need those extremes to get some snow out of this before winter is all said and done. You just need enough cold air to time just right with these disturbances and that's going to be the real challenge. I'll say this...I didn't see a lot of "pacific air" with that 12z run of the GFS though as someone mentioned prior. Being that we're still a few weeks out. the waiting game continues.
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3752 Postby Ntxw » Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:23 pm

We need the storm system over the weekend to dive much further south and come out of the big bend of Texas. We've not had that luck this winter so far.
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3753 Postby orangeblood » Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:42 pm

txtwister78 wrote:17th-21st has always been the target period to watch as mentioned a few days ago on here. Ensembles generally for the most part have been highlighting that period over the past several runs and so it's not a surprise to see the GFS, Euro and Canadian operationals introduce some colder air around that timeframe.

I think anyone going to the extremes though (Jan of this year or Feb 2021) is just hyping, but as also mentioned yesterday, you don't need those extremes to get some snow out of this before winter is all said and done. You just need enough cold air to time just right with these disturbances and that's going to be the real challenge. I'll say this...I didn't see a lot of "pacific air" with that 12z run of the GFS though as someone mentioned prior. Being that we're still a few weeks out. the waiting game continues.


The Ensembles have been very consistent with Pacific Air infiltrating the pattern and flow going more zonal again after the 20th. This type negative anomaly crashing into California is usually a very good indicator of this and what's allowing it is the Alaskan Ridge retrogression over to Siberia. Pacific Jet is about to start ramping up after the 20th according to almost all long range guidance, Negative AO stays intact but EPO/WPO is much more in doubt

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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3754 Postby Ntxw » Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:49 pm

orangeblood wrote:
txtwister78 wrote:17th-21st has always been the target period to watch as mentioned a few days ago on here. Ensembles generally for the most part have been highlighting that period over the past several runs and so it's not a surprise to see the GFS, Euro and Canadian operationals introduce some colder air around that timeframe.

I think anyone going to the extremes though (Jan of this year or Feb 2021) is just hyping, but as also mentioned yesterday, you don't need those extremes to get some snow out of this before winter is all said and done. You just need enough cold air to time just right with these disturbances and that's going to be the real challenge. I'll say this...I didn't see a lot of "pacific air" with that 12z run of the GFS though as someone mentioned prior. Being that we're still a few weeks out. the waiting game continues.


The Ensembles have been very consistent with Pacific Air infiltrating the pattern and flow going more zonal again after the 20th. This type negative anomaly crashing into California is usually a very good indicator of this and what's allowing it is the Alaskan Ridge retrogression over to Siberia. Pacific Jet is about to start ramping up after the 20th according to almost all long range guidance, Negative AO stays intact but EPO/WPO is much more in doubt

https://images.weatherbell.com/model/gfs-ensemble-all-avg/namer/z500_anom/1707307200/1708344000-PSJhsJu5E20.png


There might be a window between 15th-20th the EPO is negative enough for a split flow weaker pac jet moment. That will be our best shot a winter storm.
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3755 Postby Brent » Wed Feb 07, 2024 1:54 pm

Ntxw wrote:We need the storm system over the weekend to dive much further south and come out of the big bend of Texas. We've not had that luck this winter so far.


I swear Kansas has had more snow than anyone around here this winter and this weekend may be the same deal. It's amazing the difference down here were no better off than the disgrace of last winter while Wichita has had more than their average already
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3756 Postby Stratton23 » Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:01 pm

All of the global models have some sort of system around the 17-18th , in line with ensemble guidance, we will just have to watch and see how this evolves
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3757 Postby Ntxw » Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:03 pm

Brent wrote:
Ntxw wrote:We need the storm system over the weekend to dive much further south and come out of the big bend of Texas. We've not had that luck this winter so far.


I swear Kansas has had more snow than anyone around here this winter and this weekend may be the same deal. It's amazing the difference down here were no better off than the disgrace of last winter while Wichita has had more than their average already


This has easily been one of the blockiest winters so far. All the way to S-central Canada focused. But the deeper negative anomalies at 500H has not been prevalent below like the other blocky winters outside of the anomalous Jan block. What does this mean? That the base pattern has lacked cold air.

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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3758 Postby txtwister78 » Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:10 pm

orangeblood wrote:
txtwister78 wrote:17th-21st has always been the target period to watch as mentioned a few days ago on here. Ensembles generally for the most part have been highlighting that period over the past several runs and so it's not a surprise to see the GFS, Euro and Canadian operationals introduce some colder air around that timeframe.

I think anyone going to the extremes though (Jan of this year or Feb 2021) is just hyping, but as also mentioned yesterday, you don't need those extremes to get some snow out of this before winter is all said and done. You just need enough cold air to time just right with these disturbances and that's going to be the real challenge. I'll say this...I didn't see a lot of "pacific air" with that 12z run of the GFS though as someone mentioned prior. Being that we're still a few weeks out. the waiting game continues.


The Ensembles have been very consistent with Pacific Air infiltrating the pattern and flow going more zonal again after the 20th. This type negative anomaly crashing into California is usually a very good indicator of this and what's allowing it is the Alaskan Ridge retrogression over to Siberia. Pacific Jet is about to start ramping up after the 20th according to almost all long range guidance, Negative AO stays intact but EPO/WPO is much more in doubt

https://images.weatherbell.com/model/gfs-ensemble-all-avg/namer/z500_anom/1707307200/1708344000-PSJhsJu5E20.png


Yeah I'm not doubting the longer term. I don't see this pattern being "locked in" as some have suggested on social media along with the Cosgrove guy that folks post daily. What I'm referring to is a window of the 17th-21st where you have enough of an negative EPO to deliver a shot of colder air to interact with the active jet.
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3759 Postby Stratton23 » Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:17 pm

Guidance is in good agreement thag at least the -AO/-NAO will stay in tact through the extended term, EPO is more tricky, guidance is split on that, with some retaining a negative outlook through the first week of march, and some heading slightly positive, everything i currently see suggests the EPO will hover around neutral, not really going much positive or negative lol, we will see, at the least that -nao will trap whatever cold air is dow. here
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Re: Texas Winter 2023-2024

#3760 Postby Ntxw » Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:18 pm

In other news, a full on SSW split will occur within in the next week or so. Second event of the season! Some period in March may see some anomalous cold. Still not known if this is another late winter warming or final warming. If final warming it will warm up dramatically after (April). If it's not final warming Easter will be cold per usual.

 https://twitter.com/DrAHButler/status/1754340286245765269


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