Now the Whining Starts...

[inotherwords]

I'm glad I'm smart enough to make my own decisions about when to leave and not wait until a mayor says it's OK.

I watched the news feeds for days. They were suggesting people leave as early as Friday and telling them to go on Saturday and Sunday. The area meteorologists were showing maps with models as early as Friday that indicated this huge storm was barreling down on the area. Why does anyone have to wait to get permission from some damn mayor before they get off their butts and go? I also saw all the reports of buses that were taking people out of the city and advisories as to evacuation routes. These people, even the poor people, were not living in a vacuum, particularly in a densely populated area where word gets around fast.

[jasons2k]

Pretty much says it all:



I can't find it now, but NWS NOLA on SUNDAY MORNING said area may be uninhabitable for weeks, maybe longer

[luvwinter]

I don't disagree that the city did a poor job in planning. I do know that people did show up at the superdome late and some probably walked. I also know that the voluntary evac was done awhile before the mandatory evac wasn't it. I saw a woman interviewed who said she put her family kids and grandkids included, in danger because she wouldn't leave and they didn't want to leave her there. She said it was a selfish thing and I will never do it again.

[kajunwetha]

How can you say well I have a care package ready.... Tent ready etc... these people STAYED mostly because they HAVE TOO! If they had all those nice things you speak of it would BE GONE anyway.. Blown away with thier house.

Do you think they are checking storm2k for updates? Reading computer models??

I called my sister Saturday morning and told her to get out... She didnt know it was coming for us...

I garantee 90% of the population thought the hurricane was going to hit east of Pensacola on Saturday. Because THAT is what the NHC said on Thursday and early Friday. Do you think 1.5 million people are glued to Computer models?

You people need to realize that an ENTIRE COAST has been destroyed! Nobody wants to compare this to 9/11 which I saw live and cried and sent what little money I had at the time up north..

Now imaging if New York to Maine coast Destroyed... I would AGAIN send what I have (hich up until this week was meager but alot more)ince I got out of college...

But some of you dont want to return that favor??? This is America right??

Where we help our fellow brothers???

I was fortunate to find out that my place was spared but my city is destroyed. There is no drinkable water no electricity nothing... And I am one of those who were smart... Yet I still dont have anything to return too..

And Yet I cried during 9/11 for you guys but I have yet to cry for my own future.

[docjoe]

<<How can you say well I have a care package ready.... Tent ready etc... these people STAYED mostly because they HAVE TOO! If they had all those nice things you speak of it would BE GONE anyway.. Blown away with thier house. >>

This may be a bit presumptious of me but if you have the wherewithall to have a care package, tent, etc then most likely you had the ability to leave to a safer area if you were ordered to leave. Again i understand there are many people for whom evacuation is next to impossible. However, having lived through 2 cat 3 storms in the past year (not as bad as katrina but still bad) I cant fathom why you would stay in an area that local authorities say you should evacuate from. Evacuation orders are not given lightly. Much research and planning goes into them and they are given for a reason. The simple fact is we would be looking at significantly fewer casualties if people followed orders. That being said we now, as a society, have a duty to help those who need our help.

docjoe

[gratefulnole]

I saw the same interview as the original poster.
The ""Where's FEMA? I don't have a thing!" and "They have lots of money, when is it getting here?" " comment was made by someone on the Missisippi coast a few blocks from the Gulf of Mexico who could have evacuated but decided to ride out the storm. It wasn't from a poor or invalid person in New Orleans.
I think there is a big difference between those who had no way out in New Olreans and those who chose to ride it out on the Missisppi coast. She felt like FEMA should have dropped off a trailor to live in with food and water for her the yesterday.

[kajunwetha]

REALITY..... They stayed... It happend.

Please dont try and say things like I went through 3 hurricanes.. Etc or went through this or that hurricane.. Nothing is like this.... Nothing...

I have had the fortune of having a great education and a great job. I work at a place where Ocean Weather modeling is a profession. I knew it was coming and I drove myself and my dog out and I told as many people as I could to get out.

But what many of you fail to realize that the poorest states in the country are Mississippi and Louisiana.. Check the education ranking.... Yep LA and MS are at the top..

I received a great education growing up in west louisiana before moving to Slidell. You will find the worst eduaction system in the country is in New Orleans.. The 9th Ward may be the worst area in the country... We were the murder capital of the country 2 years ago.. Yet 98% of murders occured only in the 9th ward. (Those are a majority of the people you see on TV today looting and killing)

These people stayed.. They are poor and uneducated.. Likely dont even know what the weather channel is. Add that to the fact that we all evacuated last year for Ivan and it never came people just said 'no Im not going through that hell again'

All while I drove home and listend to the radio as were many people waiting to hear the word for evacuation.. Gov Blanco was FORTY MINUTES LATE for a meeting everyone was waiting on. She is very unorganized.. Honestly I cant think of any politician in my memory less organized.

These are some reason.. But NONE of these reason change the fact that they need HELP TODAY..

To hear people complain about gas prices and funding my state and the state I work in just HURTS...

Think about it... We supply Almost ALL of your gas... Yet we are the least wealthy states in the UNION(Hope you all realize we are still a union)

Please dont second guess us and kick us while we are down.

[birdwomn]

Wow, I am stunned after reading this thread.

Yes, I agree that everyone should do whatever they can to prepare themselves. But that will be different for different people and at different times in their lives.

We should not be sitting in judgement of anyone at this point it time. We should be pullling together to help one another. Some people had no other options, some people were so caught up in the day-to-day life that they didn't prepare as they should. Some had a perfectly good plan and supplies and for one reason or another got stuck anyway.

I will long remember the comment of a well prepared and expereinced friend who didn't leave when they should have and then were faced with the choice of "do we stay or do we go?" When you evacuate, you are trying to save yor life...if you wait too late...you will be making the decison of "do we want to risk dying at home, or do we want to risk dying in a car on the highway?" Everyone must make that choice for themselves. If you were forunate enough to make the choice to stay home and actually survive against the odds...should you be punished and ridiculed because you didn't make the better choice?

Sometimes you are simply too tired to act rationally or nicely. You have basic needs that are not being met, and you want them now....that is survival. It is easy to say you would never complain when you are sitting in an airconditioned house with a full meal. We all hope that we would not complain, but when you are tired, exhausted and ahve lost everything, you are not always quite as nice and rational as you might normally be.

Can we cut these survivors a break? Please?

[NFLnut]

I don't think ANY of us wouldn't do anything we could to help those people! You misunderstood our comments. Many of us were in that situation last year (not just once either). Maybe not as extreme.

I had major damage to MY home that is STILL in the process of repair. I sat for 15 hours twice through Frances' and Jeanne's 105 mph gusts after Charley punched two 9-foot holes in my roof and prayed that the whole first floor wouldn't be flooded a second and third time. But I didn't lose my life, my wife, or my house. I can't imagine what those people are going through! But I also don't understand the mentality of looting tennis shoes, TVs, etc and then blaming FEMA barely two days after the worst Hurricane in U.S. history!

OTOH, I know that the looters are a small percentage of the people coming out of "the swamp." I have a feeling that there are more good-hearted, heart-broken, scared, hungry and thirsty people in that crowd than there are AK-47 toting hoodlums!

[birdwomn]

NFLnut -

I agree with you...I don't understand why some of them are doing what they are doing. It seems crazy, I guess my only way of half understaning it is to know two things:

1) some people are simply bad and will do the worst every time - they should be locked up or worse

2) some people just can't think rationally in disasters and say and do "stupid" things - they should be given the basic needs and given a chance to gain their equilibrium. (They also probably don't know the widespread damage and disaster, all they see is their little corner fo the world)

[Cookiely]

Did anyone see the hundreds of school buses underwater. Tell me they couldn't have picked up people and saved the buses.

[docjoe]

REALITY..... They stayed... It happend.

Please dont try and say things like I went through 3 hurricanes.. Etc or went through this or that hurricane.. Nothing is like this.... Nothing...

I have had the fortune of having a great education and a great job. I work at a place where Ocean Weather modeling is a profession. I knew it was coming and I drove myself and my dog out and I told as many people as I could to get out.

But what many of you fail to realize that the poorest states in the country are Mississippi and Louisiana.. Check the education ranking.... Yep LA and MS are at the top..

I received a great education growing up in west louisiana before moving to Slidell. You will find the worst eduaction system in the country is in New Orleans.. The 9th Ward may be the worst area in the country... We were the murder capital of the country 2 years ago.. Yet 98% of murders occured only in the 9th ward. (Those are a majority of the people you see on TV today looting and killing)

These people stayed.. They are poor and uneducated.. Likely dont even know what the weather channel is. Add that to the fact that we all evacuated last year for Ivan and it never came people just said 'no Im not going through that hell again'

All while I drove home and listend to the radio as were many people waiting to hear the word for evacuation.. Gov Blanco was FORTY MINUTES LATE for a meeting everyone was waiting on. She is very unorganized.. Honestly I cant think of any politician in my memory less organized.

These are some reason.. But NONE of these reason change the fact that they need HELP TODAY..

To hear people complain about gas prices and funding my state and the state I work in just HURTS...

Think about it... We supply Almost ALL of your gas... Yet we are the least wealthy states in the UNION(Hope you all realize we are still a union)

Please dont second guess us and kick us while we are down.

I would like to respond to a couple of things in your pose if I may.
1) Actually I feel that those of us who have survived major storms probably understand more than anyone what is going on. Also note I acknowledged that what we had last year was not on this scale.

2) I have lived on the gulf coast of AL and FL for years. I have spent time in SELA and south Mississippi. I am from AL which also is found near the bottom of the education ladder. However I truly doubt that a diploma is needed to respond to evacuation and preparation orders.

3)Evacuating for a storm in the past that didnt pan out for you is no excuse. Do you quit following driving rules because you didnt have a wreck last time you drove??

4) I also mentioned that we have a responsibility to do what we canto help Katrina victims. Does not sound like kicking while you are down to me

There is no excuse for lack of preparation by people that were capable. Their lack of prep takes help away from those who truly couldnt. Just thinkof things this way. If you knew for sure that where you live would have a total and complete food shortage for 2 weeks starting next week would you stock up or would you do nothing and expect others to bail you out?? I know what most responsible folks would do. All of this is not an attack on the people over there or where they live. They are having a horror that no one should ever experience. My thoughts for the morning.

docjoe

[JenBayles]

Come on, let's face it. Some of these people are able bodied and could have done a few things to help themselves. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, they've come to rely on some government agency for their daily living. Why wouldn't they now expect the government to provide for their every need? Sad, but in too many cases, true.

[inotherwords]

I really do think lack of education is an issue, to a point. Nobody is suggesting that they were sitting at the computer looking at models. But most people have TVs these days, even the poorest people, and the local stations were on this storm all weekend starting Friday, and the local mets were explaining this using models, which graphically brought the point home that this thing was coming and hitting the coast, and it didn't matter if it turned out to be a near miss or not.

I doubt anybody down there didn't hear "turn on the weather report, there's a big hurricane coming" from a friend or relative or neighbor. I also doubt they didn't sit around talking about what might happen if the levees break.

I'm not trying to place blame anywhere, I think some of us are trying to analyze the situation afterward so that we learn something, which is what a lot of people do as part of their jobs. I tend to do it as a matter of rote. If we try to figure out what we can learn from this, then maybe we can affect positive change in the future.

[inotherwords]

One more post and I'll shut up.

I also think there might be some sort of cultural thing that keeps people from evacuating.

I have a friend who was brought up in rural Tennessee. She is not dumb, she has a college education and more street smarts than anyone else I know. She's a cussin', hard-drinkin, gun-totin' Nascar watchin' girl and a real hoot. Nobody messes with her! She's like a mini-Annie Oakley. She lives in a small wood frame house on a creek that floods if you sneeze in it. Last year during the Charley scare, she was in an evac zone as was I. I called to see when she was leaving and where she would be going and she said "We ain't goin' anywhere!" When I asked why, I did not get a reason. That was all I got. "We're stayin'!" I really wonder if there's a false pride or sort of macho kind of thing coming in here that, culturally, would be present in just about any city facing a disaster.

I can also remember my ex-husband saying years ago he'd never evacuate either, with that same macho swagger. And it turns out a few years after we divorced, he was out of town on a business trip for Andrew. His pregnant wife was left in the house in South Dade near the water in an interior bathroom with their four kids, and the house coming down around them. They survived but I bet anything he told them it was no big deal and to stay put.

[Hfcomms]

I really do think lack of education is an issue, to a point. Nobody is suggesting that they were sitting at the computer looking at models. But most people have TVs these days, even the poorest people, and the local stations were on this storm all weekend starting Friday, and the local mets were explaining this using models, which graphically brought the point home that this thing was coming and hitting the coast, and it didn't matter if it turned out to be a near miss or not.

I don't think it's a lack of education as much as the attitude "It will never happen to me." Disasters are something that happens to other people somewhere else. I don't know about living in a N.O. ghetto. I am very blessed that has not been my experience so I can't talk about that.

However, the prevailing attitude in most of the nation is we have been programmed to look to the government to take care of us and meet our needs. With a catestrophic earthquake in California you would be seeing the same stuff going on as in N.O. and general gulf coast.

Most people don't prepare and plan for the possibility that it could happen to them. The fat ugly truth that were seeing before our eyes is if disaster happens to you then you must have planned to be on your own and to supply your own needs for an extended period of time.

Yes, there are the poor, elderly, weak sick and infirm that have no choice. But many of us choose to live and work where we do. I moved several years ago to a more rural area where self sufficiency is not a dirty word. I don't make nearly as much money as I used to as I have traded some creature comforts for some self sufficiency. For most of us it can be done with a little sacrifice and forethought before disaster happens. In a very real way you want to be where everyone else isn't.

[Persepone]

Hurricat: I agree with all that you say—but at the same time I have to agree with ISU-2001. (And to a bunch of posters who posted while I was writing this, I see....)

Hurricat: there is one thing that you have that many of those you are seeing on TV do not have and that is basic intelligence and a moral code, ethics, and a sense of your own self-worth!

In the end, those are much more valuable qualities than you may realize—not only for you, but for your children, other family members, etc.

I used to tell my daughter that the difference between us and many of our neighbors was that “they were ‘poor’ but we just did not have any money.” That was true, by the way. If you looked at us by examining our bank account, our possessions, etc. we were in many ways ‘worse off’ than some of our neighbors who were truly poor. But we had intelligence, health, valued education, etc. So, yeah, in the end, we were able to “think it through,” plan for the future, and defer gratification, make intelligent choices, and so forth. No matter how little money or possessions we had, we were always gradually moving forward instead of being on the one step forward and three steps back path of many of our neighbors. And, as you have from your preparations, etc. we did have one important mental attitude—we could do something about any situation we found ourselves in! We had some responsibility for—but also control over—our situation.

So, yes, Hurricat, you are doing the right thing! Even if you never have to take your kids out to stay in that tent and cook your emergency food over a can of sterno (except on a practice camping trip or something—and your kids might have fun with that...) you are teaching your kids very important lessons! And you are doing something important for yourself and your family—you are constantly adding to that mental bank account of “self worth and self esteem” for all of you. And, over time, your life will probably always have an upward trend, and your kids will do well, etc. When you are my age, you can sit back and say, “hey, I did a good job.” And even when you hit “hard times” when you are older (we’ve had a bunch of personal disasters lately), you will find that fundamentally your life is a “happy” one.

But ISU2001 has a point. The problem with many of the people in the inner city is that they do not have that sense of control over their own destiny, do not believe that they have it within their power to make progress on their daily struggles, etc. My students (and yes, I eventually did teach) did face the daily realities of the inner city. And many teachers did not understand why their students could not “go to the library.” In the neighborhoods my kids came from, it was NOT SAFE for children to “go to the library”—they risked getting SHOT (drug dealers, etc.) trying to go to the library. Of course their parents, grandparents, caregivers did not allow them to “run the gauntlet.” And yes, there were tremendous pressures not to step out, to go beyond, etc. Because in the end, it is true that the kids who did struggle to stay in school, get scholarships and loans to go to college, etc. did, eventually, find that they were “estranged” from their environment. It was not that they forgot where they came from, but rather that they had a different attitude toward themselves. They now had choices, they now had some control over their destinies, etc. And, 20+ years later, I’m still in touch with a bunch of those kids and they are constantly battling to try to bring others along behind them on paths they blazed. But it is not easy.

And in the case of the specific NOLA hurricane victims. I agree that many could not have bought supplies even if they wanted to. They could not leave even if they wanted to. And many were elderly, fragile, ill, disabled, very young, etc. Others were trying to take care of and were unwilling to abandon the elderly, fragile, ill, disabled, etc. And of course others were able-bodied, but not smart enough to figure out what to do. In fact, the people Isu2001 cites who come from a life of street violence and the attitude that “if I go to jail, then I guess at least I will be fed” are people who are just as “mentally handicapped” as people with illnesses like schitzophrenia. Those are people who have no sense of self worth, no sense of control over their destiny, etc.

I was very angry about the attitude of the Mayor of New Orleans and the Homeland Security guy as seen on TV before the storm! The Mayor “ordered” people to leave knowing full well that significant numbers of the elderly, fragile, ill, disabled, poor, etc. would be unable to just click their heels together and transport themselves out of New Orleans. I notice that the buses used to evacuate the Superdome are “local” school buses. So where were those buses the day before the storm hit when the highways out of town were intact?

Even allowing for the fact that some people still might have refused to leave, I think they would have been able to take a significant number of people out of New Orleans.

And, frankly, it would have been “cheaper” to do so.

It’s the old argument about “welfare” and “socialized medicine.” The bottom line is that it is just plain cheaper to immunize against disease than to take care of someone with something like polio. It is just plain cheaper to provide early preventative dental care, etc. than it is to deal with the host of health problems that result from the lack of dental care. It is cheaper to provide prenatal care and medicine that prevents things like spina bifida than it is to take care of spina bifida victims. Those who are self-reliant and who “take care of their families” and do not expect handouts, etc. are puzzled and angered when they realize that someone next door or down the street actually gets more money than they make at a 40+ hour a week job (or perhaps 2 or more jobs) for sitting home and “collecting.” But you know what? Those of us who had the intelligence, the ethics, or whatever it is that made us take control of our own destinies and responsibility for ourselves really were much more blessed than those who got money from the government instead.

So, yes, this may sound contradictory, but actually I agree with both of you!

[Roxy]

NO WAY IS THIS "POLITICAL"... but it will still show the differences in people...

I GUESS I must just be one heartless you-know-what, but now we are seeing a lot of people on TV, (bleeping) and moaning about "Where's FEMA? I don't have a thing!" and "They have lots of money, when is it getting here?"

I'm sorry, but I just get mad as heck at such helplessness and irresponsibility being shown by grown men and women. When it's someone standing there with children, I get even madder.

Listen up, I don't have much, and I sure don't make much. I'm not some "American Express" yuppie who just buys everything with no sweat. But starting with Charley, I learned that I have to have a PLAN. I owe it to myself and to my wife.

It really loaded up a credit card, but I quickly assembled two dang-good hurricane kits. I got a large tent and folding kennel cages for our cats. I got a few rolls of screen, heavy black plastic and things like a staple gun and hammer and nails. I got two extra-good water filters. I got one of those camp-toilets and supplies for it.

Next, I thought "What if..." and ran different scenarios in my head. Now, I have plans for all sorts of needs. If I need to leave, I know when to do so and where to go. I have extra gas cans and some cash socked away. If I'm staying, then I can board up and secure the property. If our house becomes unliveable, then we can camp out in relative comfort.

A lot of you won't like it, but I have firearms and am proficient in their use. I am a responsible owner and keep them secure. We will not be helpless should there be a few days in which the police or Guard aren't there to protect us. Even a mouse will fight if cornered.

You will never see me on TV, lamenting my sad tale, and whining for handouts.

Yes, I have compassion. Yes, I feel for these people. What I have little patience for is when people just do not take responsibility for their very lives.

Oh, and about that credit card - I worked hard and paid it off quickly through a lot of bag lunches at work and DVDs and stuff not purchased. Even without the convenience of a credit card, I would STILL have equipped myself with second-hand items and a one-piece-at-a-time determination.

I'm doing it now. I would not "preach" like this if I wasn't walking my talk as it were.

I'm not rich, I'm not overly smart, and I bet that only my wife thinks me a bit handsome.

So, if I'm not so hot, then why can't the other people be more self-reliant? I mean, at least save enough cash for a bus ticket. And for poop's sake, have the common sense to LEAVE if you're that close to the ocean and the advisory to leave is given!

Well said. Very well said.

[Downdraft]

While everyone is arguing here just remember what your doing is part of the natural process of dealing with this. Denial and anger are both very natural emotions that need to dealt with and vented. This is a national tragedy and it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.