ENSO Updates (2007 thru 2023)

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Re: ENSO Updates

#13621 Postby LarryWx » Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:01 am

Kingarabian wrote: Yeah most recent subsurface snapshots no longer show 1997/2015 as analogs. So looks like super chances are almost gone despite the very impressive anomalies over Nino 1+2 and Nino 3. Strong and moderate are still in the cards.


I disagree with the underlined. Here's why:

- The new (August) JMA run is following the recent overall model consensus being stronger in 3.4.

- It rose sharply to ~+2.2 for both OND and NDJ compared to a +1.76 peak for OND in last month's run. The run from two months ago was at +1.87.

- The significance of the JMA being this warm is that unlike a number of models it has generally averaged slightly too cool on the order of 0.1 in nearby runs to 0.3 several months out.

- Thus this along with the latest CFS, Euro, Meteo-France, and BoM all being pretty safely in super territory tells me that the chance for a super strong ONI peak has risen sharply (though I still feel that BoM is too warm). I haven't seen the new UKMET nor CANSIPS yet. July UKMET/CANSIPS peaked at +1.82/+1.61.

-Based on this along with recent actual warming and sharp SOI drop, I feel that the chance for a super ONI peak has risen sharply from slight to 50%. The main things holding me from raising it even more are that raising it to just 50% is quite a rise and the OHC fell sharply from +1.30 in mid June to +0.75 in late July. However, OHC looks to be warming now and I do expect significant warming over the next few months.

- Nino 1+2 is also significantly warmer this month on the JMA for Dec with ~+2.4 vs ~+1.7 last month.

- Nino 3, Nino 4, and IOD all also rose significantly.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13622 Postby Kingarabian » Mon Aug 14, 2023 10:09 am

LarryWx wrote:
Kingarabian wrote: Yeah most recent subsurface snapshots no longer show 1997/2015 as analogs. So looks like super chances are almost gone despite the very impressive anomalies over Nino 1+2 and Nino 3. Strong and moderate are still in the cards.


I disagree with the underlined. Here's why:

- The new (August) JMA run is following the recent overall model consensus being stronger in 3.4.

- It rose sharply to ~+2.2 for both OND and NDJ compared to a +1.76 peak for OND in last month's run. The run from two months ago was at +1.87.

- The significance of the JMA being this warm is that unlike a number of models it has generally averaged slightly too cool on the order of 0.1 in nearby runs to 0.3 several months out.

- Thus this along with the latest CFS, Euro, Meteo-France, and BoM all being pretty safely in super territory tells me that the chance for a super strong ONI peak has risen sharply (though I still feel that BoM is too warm). I haven't seen the new UKMET nor CANSIPS yet. July UKMET/CANSIPS peaked at +1.82/+1.61.

-Based on this along with recent actual warming and sharp SOI drop, I feel that the chance for a super ONI peak has risen sharply from slight to 50%. The main things holding me from raising it even more are that raising it to just 50% is quite a rise and the OHC fell sharply from +1.30 in mid June to +0.75 in late July. However, OHC looks to be warming now and I do expect significant warming over the next few months.

- Nino 1+2 is also significantly warmer this month on the JMA for Dec with ~+2.4 vs ~+1.7 last month.

- Nino 3, Nino 4, and IOD all also rose significantly.

Both super Nino analogs aren't valid anymore per the latest subsurface updates. On top of that we can't buy a legit WWB. Will be hard for those models to verify IMO.
Image
Image
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13623 Postby LarryWx » Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:09 pm

Kingarabian wrote:
LarryWx wrote:
Kingarabian wrote: Yeah most recent subsurface snapshots no longer show 1997/2015 as analogs. So looks like super chances are almost gone despite the very impressive anomalies over Nino 1+2 and Nino 3. Strong and moderate are still in the cards.


I disagree with the underlined. Here's why:

- The new (August) JMA run is following the recent overall model consensus being stronger in 3.4.

- It rose sharply to ~+2.2 for both OND and NDJ compared to a +1.76 peak for OND in last month's run. The run from two months ago was at +1.87.

- The significance of the JMA being this warm is that unlike a number of models it has generally averaged slightly too cool on the order of 0.1 in nearby runs to 0.3 several months out.

- Thus this along with the latest CFS, Euro, Meteo-France, and BoM all being pretty safely in super territory tells me that the chance for a super strong ONI peak has risen sharply (though I still feel that BoM is too warm). I haven't seen the new UKMET nor CANSIPS yet. July UKMET/CANSIPS peaked at +1.82/+1.61.

-Based on this along with recent actual warming and sharp SOI drop, I feel that the chance for a super ONI peak has risen sharply from slight to 50%. The main things holding me from raising it even more are that raising it to just 50% is quite a rise and the OHC fell sharply from +1.30 in mid June to +0.75 in late July. However, OHC looks to be warming now and I do expect significant warming over the next few months.

- Nino 1+2 is also significantly warmer this month on the JMA for Dec with ~+2.4 vs ~+1.7 last month.

- Nino 3, Nino 4, and IOD all also rose significantly.

Both super Nino analogs aren't valid anymore per the latest subsurface updates. On top of that we can't buy a legit WWB. Will be hard for those models to verify IMO.
https://i.postimg.cc/V6bXvdms/dep-lon-EQ-19970811-t-anom-20230811-t-anom-500-0-500-0-hf-inline-2023081408.png
https://i.postimg.cc/05DpqMVc/dep-lon-EQ-20150811-t-anom-20230811-t-anom-500-0-500-0-hf-inline-2023081408.png


The OHC warming is commencing from the west. I expect it to be pretty robust. Let's see if this occurs over the next few weeks.
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Re: ENSO Updates: CPC Weekly update= Niño 3.4 up to +1.2C

#13624 Postby cycloneye » Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:18 pm

cycloneye wrote:The CPC Weekly update has Niño 3.4 up to +1.2C.

Niño 4 +0.9ºC
Niño 3.4 +1.2ºC
Niño 3 +1.8ºC
Niño 1+2 +3.3ºC


https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/ ... ts-web.pdf


Hi LarryWx, What is your analysis of this CPC weekly update?
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Re: ENSO Updates: CPC Weekly update= Niño 3.4 up to +1.2C

#13625 Postby LarryWx » Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:32 pm

cycloneye wrote:
cycloneye wrote:The CPC Weekly update has Niño 3.4 up to +1.2C.

Niño 4 +0.9ºC
Niño 3.4 +1.2ºC
Niño 3 +1.8ºC
Niño 1+2 +3.3ºC


https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/ ... ts-web.pdf


Hi LarryWx, What is your analysis of this CPC weekly update?


No surprises, Luis. I have no disagreements and nothing to add.
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Re: ENSO Updates: CPC Weekly 8/14/23 update= Niño 3.4 up to +1.2C

#13626 Postby zzzh » Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:36 pm

Super Nino isn't happening with an atmosphere like this.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13627 Postby Kingarabian » Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:44 pm

LarryWx wrote:
Kingarabian wrote:
LarryWx wrote:
I disagree with the underlined. Here's why:

- The new (August) JMA run is following the recent overall model consensus being stronger in 3.4.

- It rose sharply to ~+2.2 for both OND and NDJ compared to a +1.76 peak for OND in last month's run. The run from two months ago was at +1.87.

- The significance of the JMA being this warm is that unlike a number of models it has generally averaged slightly too cool on the order of 0.1 in nearby runs to 0.3 several months out.

- Thus this along with the latest CFS, Euro, Meteo-France, and BoM all being pretty safely in super territory tells me that the chance for a super strong ONI peak has risen sharply (though I still feel that BoM is too warm). I haven't seen the new UKMET nor CANSIPS yet. July UKMET/CANSIPS peaked at +1.82/+1.61.

-Based on this along with recent actual warming and sharp SOI drop, I feel that the chance for a super ONI peak has risen sharply from slight to 50%. The main things holding me from raising it even more are that raising it to just 50% is quite a rise and the OHC fell sharply from +1.30 in mid June to +0.75 in late July. However, OHC looks to be warming now and I do expect significant warming over the next few months.

- Nino 1+2 is also significantly warmer this month on the JMA for Dec with ~+2.4 vs ~+1.7 last month.

- Nino 3, Nino 4, and IOD all also rose significantly.

Both super Nino analogs aren't valid anymore per the latest subsurface updates. On top of that we can't buy a legit WWB. Will be hard for those models to verify IMO.
https://i.postimg.cc/V6bXvdms/dep-lon-EQ-19970811-t-anom-20230811-t-anom-500-0-500-0-hf-inline-2023081408.png
https://i.postimg.cc/05DpqMVc/dep-lon-EQ-20150811-t-anom-20230811-t-anom-500-0-500-0-hf-inline-2023081408.png


The OHC warming is commencing from the west. I expect it to be pretty robust. Let's see if this occurs over the next few weeks.

Image
Not yet seeing west warming but it's possible if we do get a WWB.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13628 Postby Ntxw » Wed Aug 16, 2023 8:32 pm

OISST has been steadily rising. We could be 1.3C and a chance at 1.4C which is on the cusp of strong El Nino with about two or three months from peak.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13629 Postby Kingarabian » Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:29 am

I would assume Monday will be +1.3C. CDAS is running behind OISST by about .2 degrees and it's at +1.1C today.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13630 Postby Kingarabian » Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:30 am

Strong WWB in the far eastern Pacific in relation to Hurricane Hilary should reinforce the very warm Nino 1+2 anomalies.

Image
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13631 Postby zzzh » Sat Aug 19, 2023 2:18 pm

Image
WWB east of 130W and enhanced trades near the dateline resemble are more of a Nina atmosphere response :D .
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13632 Postby LarryWx » Sun Aug 20, 2023 8:48 pm

I'm predicting that tomorrow's weekly update will show a rise of Nino 3.4 from +1.2 to +1.3. Nino 1+2 is somewhat harder to predict, but I'll go with +3.3 to +3.4 vs +3.3 last week. Today OISST 1+2 anomaly plunged 0.5! Is that legit?
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13633 Postby Iceresistance » Mon Aug 21, 2023 10:01 am

LarryWx wrote:I'm predicting that tomorrow's weekly update will show a rise of Nino 3.4 from +1.2 to +1.3. Nino 1+2 is somewhat harder to predict, but I'll go with +3.3 to +3.4 vs +3.3 last week. Today OISST 1+2 anomaly plunged 0.5! Is that legit?

Yeah, Nino 1+2 keeps going up and down on the anomalies per CyclonicWX SST analysis, currently just below +3.4°C.

Nino 3.4 is now at +1.45°C

Nino 3 has shot up from a low of +1.8°C on the first week of August to +2.1°C.

And Nino 4 is holding steady at +1°C
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13634 Postby Kingarabian » Mon Aug 21, 2023 5:10 pm

Past couple of weeks the PMM has warmed up nicely. Still running cool but no longer sticking out like a sore thumb.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13635 Postby dexterlabio » Tue Aug 22, 2023 7:09 am

Kingarabian wrote:Past couple of weeks the PMM has warmed up nicely. Still running cool but no longer sticking out like a sore thumb.


I guess the remaning obstacle on the way for this El Niño is the still relatively warmer WPAC vs CPAC. The waters off East Asia is also getting warmer, going against a possible switch to +PDO.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13636 Postby Kingarabian » Wed Aug 23, 2023 7:34 am

Latest NCEP models show widespread CPAC-EPAC trades for most of September.

Image
Image

We'll see if this verifies.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13637 Postby Ntxw » Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:39 am

Could be 1.4 to 1.5C on Monday. 1.5C makes it the first arbitrary 'strong' reading on the weeklies. It continues to be a two prong event, heavily eastern lean. Warm water bypassing the CPAC and showing in the EQ EPAC. We're just not accustomed to this kind of event in the past 40+ years. By all metrics that we know, the ocean should not have warmed as it is doing in the eastern basin. So the mechanics of this event are different.

Nino 3 has taken off to the moon. While not 1:1, but as noted before for this event, Nino 3 is often a precursor to 3.4 ~a month down the road.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13638 Postby Sciencerocks » Fri Aug 25, 2023 2:55 pm

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Re: ENSO Updates

#13639 Postby Kingarabian » Fri Aug 25, 2023 9:05 pm


That 850mb wind and VP200 chart looks suspect. Probably due to the climo they're using.
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Re: ENSO Updates

#13640 Postby cycloneye » Mon Aug 28, 2023 1:20 pm

The CPC weekly update has Niño 3.4 up to +1.5C.
Niño 4= 1.1ºC
Niño 3.4= 1.5ºC
Niño 3= 2.2ºC
Niño 1+2= 3.1ºC


https://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/ ... ts-web.pdf
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