Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

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Teban54
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#21 Postby Teban54 » Fri Nov 03, 2023 6:37 pm

zal0phus wrote:While I'd love for List 4 to get some more exposure (it's my favorite list) and go through all the names, and I think the setup looks frighteningly favorable, I can't shake the suspicion that next season will be a dud. Undoubtedly great for the Atlantic, but an unrivaled bore for the board

List 4 does produce a lot of dud seasons, but the last two (2012 and 2018) are decidedly not. So maybe we're getting out of the "inactive List 4" pattern?

Perhaps we will be able to tell that by seeing whether Isaac finally gets retired :lol:
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#22 Postby AnnularCane » Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:02 pm

List 1 is probably the king of dud seasons, but 2021 seemed to produce pretty well (yes, I know it ended with a whimper but still).
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#23 Postby Category5Kaiju » Sat Nov 04, 2023 3:18 pm

Teban54 wrote:
zal0phus wrote:While I'd love for List 4 to get some more exposure (it's my favorite list) and go through all the names, and I think the setup looks frighteningly favorable, I can't shake the suspicion that next season will be a dud. Undoubtedly great for the Atlantic, but an unrivaled bore for the board

List 4 does produce a lot of dud seasons, but the last two (2012 and 2018) are decidedly not. So maybe we're getting out of the "inactive List 4" pattern?

Perhaps we will be able to tell that by seeing whether Isaac finally gets retired :lol:


Another fun fact is List 4 is the only list that has never been associated with a hyperactive season.
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#24 Postby CyclonicFury » Sat Nov 04, 2023 3:21 pm

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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#25 Postby DorkyMcDorkface » Sat Nov 04, 2023 6:54 pm

I know it's best to take the seasonal guidance with a grain of salt this far out, but I think it's worth mentioning most of it pretty much nailed the setup and conditions this year well in advance, with the well-above avg SSTs, TUTT cell generally displaced to the N despite being enhanced by El Niño and wet precip anoms in the MDR/central Atlantic (and corresponding dry anoms in the WATL) denoting a recurve-heavy season. If you look back at the first few months of the 2023 Indicators thread you'll see that many of the maps posted there were pretty darn close to what we ended up seeing, and given the aforementioned post-strong Niño climo I would say there is some merit to this bullish early guidance for next year. Of course that's not to say it's guaranteed to happen - we are talking about something that is over 6 months away and obviously plenty could change between now and then, and there's also just the fact that the models could be flat out incorrect and end up not verifying (that's always the risk at this lead time), but it does make sense for now.
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#26 Postby USTropics » Sat Nov 04, 2023 11:05 pm

For what it's worth, the CANSIPS SSTA verification was solid from a year out:
Image

NMME only does 7-month forecast, but its April forecast was even better:
Image

Current SSTAs:
Image

You can checkout the discussion in the ENSO thread why we are nearly guaranteed to have La Nina/Neutral next year. My thoughts currently are with season's peaking at +1.5 ONI in ASO (which 2023 just did), 4/5 of those seasons transition to La Nina the next year (only 1965 did not). With both the CFS and CANSIPS showing a transition to La Nina by mid-summer, and given the statistical data, I would hedge towards La Nina.
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#27 Postby MarioProtVI » Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:00 am

Something I think everyone is overlooking is that the first post-Nino season almost always has some underlying issue that caps activity/keeps storms weaker. Since 1995 this has been the case (except 1998, 2003, 2005 and 2010), with 2007, 2013, 2016 and 2019 having some sort of underlying issue that makes them struggle moreso (usually in the form of wind shear and a more stable MDR). It’s usually the year after the first post-Nino season that you have to watch out for (see 1999, 2004, 2008, 2017 and 2020), which always end up hyperactive. Basically I think even if we transition to La Niña next year, the Atlantic will probably struggle a bit moreso due to lingering post-Nino effects, although as we’ve seen this year the super +AMO can easily negate that. If that persists into next year and a Niña forms watch out, but I think it will cool this winter to more normal levels. 2025 might be the one to watch.
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#28 Postby Teban54 » Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:20 am

MarioProtVI wrote:Something I think everyone is overlooking is that the first post-Nino season almost always has some underlying issue that caps activity/keeps storms weaker. Since 1995 this has been the case (except 1998, 2003, 2005 and 2010), with 2007, 2013, 2016 and 2019 having some sort of underlying issue that makes them struggle moreso (usually in the form of wind shear and a more stable MDR). It’s usually the year after the first post-Nino season that you have to watch out for (see 1999, 2004, 2008, 2017 and 2020), which always end up hyperactive. Basically I think even if we transition to La Niña next year, the Atlantic will probably struggle a bit moreso due to lingering post-Nino effects, although as we’ve seen this year the super +AMO can easily negate that. If that persists into next year and a Niña forms watch out, but I think it will cool this winter to more normal levels. 2025 might be the one to watch.

4 out of 8 seasons being hyperactive doesn't seem like "almost always" to me.

Edit: I'm also not sure why you have 2013 in there, as 2012 was more like a failed El Nino.
Last edited by Teban54 on Mon Nov 06, 2023 5:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#29 Postby al78 » Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:53 am

MarioProtVI wrote:Something I think everyone is overlooking is that the first post-Nino season almost always has some underlying issue that caps activity/keeps storms weaker. Since 1995 this has been the case (except 1998, 2003, 2005 and 2010), with 2007, 2013, 2016 and 2019 having some sort of underlying issue that makes them struggle moreso (usually in the form of wind shear and a more stable MDR). It’s usually the year after the first post-Nino season that you have to watch out for (see 1999, 2004, 2008, 2017 and 2020), which always end up hyperactive. Basically I think even if we transition to La Niña next year, the Atlantic will probably struggle a bit moreso due to lingering post-Nino effects, although as we’ve seen this year the super +AMO can easily negate that. If that persists into next year and a Niña forms watch out, but I think it will cool this winter to more normal levels. 2025 might be the one to watch.


For 2019, I wouldn't say 18 storms, 6 hurricanes, 3 major hurricanes and 132 ACE is indicative of capped activity. 2016 was marginal La Nina during ASO and had 15 storms, 7 hurricanes, 4 intense hurricanes and 141 ACE which is also not really indicative of a season with underlying issues.
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#30 Postby FireRat » Mon Nov 06, 2023 3:16 am

2024 huh, well I think this will be an interesting year to watch... could be the 1st of two high impact seasons for us in the ATL. 2023 played 'nice' compared to 2016-2022 on our side of the world, despite being quite active in numbers. 2024 IMO might do the opposite, be slower but higher impact. (Basing this again on my oddball Chinese Zodiac experiment btw)

1964 is the season I have in mind this early on for a 2024 "analog".
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#31 Postby CrazyC83 » Tue Nov 07, 2023 4:20 pm

SFLcane wrote:I will leave this right here. For the Conus and islands better hope this doesnt come to pass. :crazyeyes:

https://i.postimg.cc/Hx7WTVry/llll.jpg


That looks a lot like either 2010 or 2011.
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#32 Postby SFLcane » Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:45 pm

Wow! Never quite seen anything like that.. :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes:

 https://twitter.com/webberweather/status/1722305759650906475


Last edited by SFLcane on Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#33 Postby LarryWx » Wed Nov 08, 2023 12:57 pm

SFLcane wrote:Wow! Never quite anything quite like that.. :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes:

https://twitter.com/webberweather/status/1722305759650906475?s=20


The NMMEs for the summer of 2023 looked very similar and I think they verified pretty well.
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#34 Postby Weathertracker96 » Wed Nov 08, 2023 1:07 pm

SFLcane wrote:Wow! Never quite seen anything like that.. :crazyeyes: :crazyeyes:

https://twitter.com/webberweather/status/1722305759650906475?s=20


If this verifies, we may start off next season pretty busy since the timestamp is valid for July 2024.
The luck this year may not be the case next year
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#35 Postby IsabelaWeather » Wed Nov 08, 2023 9:46 pm



Can someone explain the top left image to me? That graphic makes it look like lows will form in the SW caribbean and move E to NE'ward in the caribbean, is that the proper way to interpret that?
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#36 Postby USTropics » Thu Nov 09, 2023 1:33 am

IsabelaWeather wrote:


Can someone explain the top left image to me? That graphic makes it look like lows will form in the SW caribbean and move E to NE'ward in the caribbean, is that the proper way to interpret that?


He's strictly talking about the physical connection between SSTAs in the Atlantic and the negative phase of the PMM.

It starts with the bottom right of the image. When high SSTs help hydrostatically lower surface pressure, it means that the warm water from the ocean is causing the air above it to expand and become less dense. This less dense air has a lower pressure than the surrounding air, so it rises and creates an area of low pressure at the surface (fancy way of also saying we're creating convection).

This low pressure in the Atlantic from high SSTs is now creating a strong pressure gradient between the Pacific subtropical high. This helps drive northeasterly winds over the northeastern Pacific, which drives upwelling and wind regime cooling of the sea surface temperatures in that region (or in other words, the Pacific Meridional Mode is negative or cool SSTAs).

These cooler waters act to "choke" El Nino (by decreasing temperature gradient of SSTs) in the central Pacific, and this leads to our east based El Nino.
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#37 Postby WeatherBoy2000 » Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:21 pm

 https://twitter.com/dmorris9661/status/1728123619178606749




 https://twitter.com/webberweather/status/1728125462746931633




Although Eric Webb's discussion is more focused on the upcoming winter, it does pertain to the NAO. -NAO favors warming of the tropical Atlantic and it has contributed to this year's record warm mdr. If Eric is right, then the warmth should hold until at least early 2024.
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#38 Postby Ptarmigan » Mon Feb 05, 2024 10:28 pm

MarioProtVI wrote:Something I think everyone is overlooking is that the first post-Nino season almost always has some underlying issue that caps activity/keeps storms weaker. Since 1995 this has been the case (except 1998, 2003, 2005 and 2010), with 2007, 2013, 2016 and 2019 having some sort of underlying issue that makes them struggle moreso (usually in the form of wind shear and a more stable MDR). It’s usually the year after the first post-Nino season that you have to watch out for (see 1999, 2004, 2008, 2017 and 2020), which always end up hyperactive. Basically I think even if we transition to La Niña next year, the Atlantic will probably struggle a bit moreso due to lingering post-Nino effects, although as we’ve seen this year the super +AMO can easily negate that. If that persists into next year and a Niña forms watch out, but I think it will cool this winter to more normal levels. 2025 might be the one to watch.



I consider 2016 and 2019 to be active. 2019 was a weak El Nino. 2020 came off of a weak El Nino to La Nina. 2013 came off of neutral.
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Re: Very early thoughts on the 2024 Atlantic hurricane season

#39 Postby JetFuel_SE » Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:02 am

Ptarmigan wrote:
MarioProtVI wrote:Something I think everyone is overlooking is that the first post-Nino season almost always has some underlying issue that caps activity/keeps storms weaker. Since 1995 this has been the case (except 1998, 2003, 2005 and 2010), with 2007, 2013, 2016 and 2019 having some sort of underlying issue that makes them struggle moreso (usually in the form of wind shear and a more stable MDR). It’s usually the year after the first post-Nino season that you have to watch out for (see 1999, 2004, 2008, 2017 and 2020), which always end up hyperactive. Basically I think even if we transition to La Niña next year, the Atlantic will probably struggle a bit moreso due to lingering post-Nino effects, although as we’ve seen this year the super +AMO can easily negate that. If that persists into next year and a Niña forms watch out, but I think it will cool this winter to more normal levels. 2025 might be the one to watch.



I consider 2016 and 2019 to be active. 2019 was a weak El Nino. 2020 came off of a weak El Nino to La Nina. 2013 came off of neutral.

2019-20 didn't quite meet the El Niño threshold, only had four three-month periods of +0.5.
And the 2019 season as a whole was more warm-neutral than El Niño.
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2024 Indicators: SST's, MSLP, Shear, SAL, Steering, Instability, (Day 16+ Climate Models)

#40 Postby MGC » Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:34 pm

Starting to see quite a few ominous 2024 Atlantic hurricane forecasts from some of the mets I follow. Many with ACE in excess of 200 with one or two approaching 240.....Yikes. Still have six months to the heart of the hurricane season so lets hope these forecasts of doom and destruction fail to come to pass.....MGC
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